Are Calgary police above traffic laws?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Speeding I don't care so much about. I've never seen or heard of cops causing accidents. It's the shooting people that are not a threat that really gets me, would prefer if they didn't have guns. In an ideal world (for me) the police would be private, paid for by the citizens to act as peacekeepers and are heavily audited in the same way chartered accountants are. Not a fan of state run policing with lethal authority that is above the law.

Ah yes, because For Profit entities never do anything wrong......

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Ok, I am going to guess that you generated this statement out of thin air. You shared some articles that seemed to support your suggestion of a reputation, but can almost guarantee you won't be able to the do same here.

You are correct, but primarily it follows a line of thinking of social norms. Laws, and those that govern those upholding them, tend to follow (not always mind you) the progression of social change.

The problem nowadays however is systemic issues related to status quo. Not all ills can be cured with legislation (nod to our libertarian posters), and attitudes can vary how certain protocol is enforced. While we know police are required to enforce the laws rather than interpret them, historically there is always grey area that is left to the judgement of the officer involved. This can mutate into enforcing status quo, which depending on the historical background of the region, can lead to profiling.

The climate regarding law officers likely has some bearing as well.

[WhiteTiger]

Just thought that I'd drop a CPS response here (via their FB page):

"Your information is not correct. That is photographs that were generated, not tickets issued.

Once a photograph is generated it is reported to our internal review process. The report is then assessed against other factors, such as vehicle GPS, incident logs or calls for service, to determine whether the driver was justified and/or reasonable in their driving behaviour. Officers are then subject to the internal accountability and disciplinary process."

It does put me in mind of an article I saw a few days back about the unreliablity and bias of statistics. The journalist likely asked for "any pictures of CPS marked units going through a red light without emergency equipment activated"...which would net a bunch of pictures, but no context (such as if that unit was on a call at the time of the incident).

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Ah yes, because For Profit entities never do anything wrong......

Where did I say for profit? What a terrible argument. You think lethal authority with little to no accountability is better? Nice red herring. I'm an anti statist, profit motive has nothing to do with it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Where did I say for profit? What a terrible argument.

So you think a privately funded entity is going to do it for the good of their own health? Any private orgainization is going to be for profit.

You think lethal authority with little to no accountability is better? Nice red herring. I'm an anti statist, profit motive has nothing to do with it.

I would suggest that if you think our police force(s) here in Canada has carte blanche to use "lethal authority" with "little to no accountability" you have your head in the sand. How often is "lethal force" used by the police force(s) in Canada compared to other countries? I would suggest that one reason is the accountability that comes with the use of lethal force here in Canada. Police in Canada can't just go around discharging their weapons however and whenever they want. I am not privy to all the particulars of the process (I would hope that a boardmember that is knowledge might comment) but I understand that even the discharging of a weapon is looked and investigated.

How many lethal shootings were there in Canada by the police in 2014, or 2013 or 2012.

Many members of Canadian police forces will serve out their time and never, ever discharge their weapon.

Also, don't misconstrue my post to be a sweeping endorsement of the Canadian police force(s). I am sure like most large entities they could improve, but be sure of this, the use of "lethal authority with little to no accountability" is not a major systemic problem.

"Lethal authority", please.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Yeah revolutions often begin when cops abuse their authority by angle parking in a cul-de-sac.

I'm not suggesting a revolution is likely (but good job reducing what I said to an absurd conclusion and then ridiculing it). What I am suggesting is that if the populace trusts the police to be fair and uphold the law at all times, then they are more likely to cooperate with investigations, call 911 if they see a problem, and generally deal with issues that come up in an orderly manner.

When citizens don't feel they can trust the police, it's much easier for criminals to get away with crimes, which increases the crime rate reducing public safety for everyone.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm not suggesting a revolution is likely (but good job reducing what I said to an absurd conclusion and then ridiculing it). What I am suggesting is that if the populace trusts the police to be fair and uphold the law at all times, then they are more likely to cooperate with investigations, call 911 if they see a problem, and generally deal with issues that come up in an orderly manner.

When citizens don't feel they can trust the police, it's much easier for criminals to get away with crimes, which increases the crime rate reducing public safety for everyone.

And really, what I was saying (using a reducto ad absurdium, which makes me a dick), is that there are a lot more frightening reasons to not trust the police beyond traffic violations.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Isn't dissentowner a cop? He could probably provide some insight rather than speculation and conjecture.

I'd rather not. It always takes a turn for the worst when I get involved with threads like this. All I will say is some cops follow the rules to a tee, some stretch them, and some just do what they want. Officers are just people with individual personalities and not all are going to set the example of following the same rules as the general public even though they are supposed to and should. I am also not familiar with CPS policy on certain things as I work in Ontario. I have probably already said too much....

[#-3]

OP's question, the answer is yes.

The police do not put an enough effort in to following the laws, and they really should be careful about perception. Breeding feelings of contempt within the community is a bad thing for everyone. Even if they are allow to disregard the laws will they are on a non-emergency call they probably shouldn't.

That being said, I have little to no respect for our road laws. If they are going to set arbitrary road laws that randomly punish people who are using the roads in a safe, reasonable and efficient way than why should we expect people to accept those laws.

[4X4]

The people that get upset about cops bending or breaking the rules of driving sound like whining school children to me. I tend to think that I have no idea what that cop just heard on his radio that made him drive fast with or without his lights. Maybe he's just hurrying up his arrival at a scene that could use more assistance, but it's not life or death. Most of our roads are in near proximity to residential, so is it really necessary for a cop to blast his siren on 14th st, when all he really needs to do is be extra cautious? And that's just considering being considerate. Maybe they're not blasting their siren and lighting up because they're in pursuit and want to keep their advantage as long as possible? There are so many reasons why a cop doesn't have to be chasing OJ Simpson to run a light, it's not even funny.

And honestly, even if the cop is blasting a couple of lights (cautiously, as they seem to be well trained to do), IDGAF if they're just trying to meet a couple other cops at Tims for their break. It's going to end the minute their radio alerts them of the next incident, so what's it to you? Besides, they spend their shift stuck behind strugglers that go 10 under the limit every time they're seen in the rearview, so let them decide when something's important or not.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I let it go the first time, figuring maybe he was going somewhere else, but when I saw it happen 2 more times in a month, I can only assume its lazyness. Maybe the Tim's comment was out of line, I just don't understand how a cop can watch a crime happen directly in front of him and go, "meh".

2 more times in a month! The humanity! You know they answer around 180,000 calls for service a year eh?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Aleks

2 more times in a month! The humanity! You know they answer around 180,000 calls for service a year eh?

We're up to 120,000-ish already for this year... <.< >.>

[smithtofuhr86]

If you or I shot someone in a hotel room after we tried to taser them because they "attacked" us with a syringe (allegedly) not sure if we would get away with it. Of course they are above the law, most of them are good people but some lack professionalism and let being the law get to their heads I am sure this is the case everywhere. I'll never forget in 2006 an officer running a red light on shaganappi & John Laurie without lights flashing while my wife and I had a month old baby in the backseat on turning left and a flashing green light, he honked his horn at us and quickly turned to pull us over, I said "you didn't have your lights on I am sorry I didn't know you were coming through" his response was "my lights were on and you're lucky I am not arresting you". Top notch cop.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

We're up to 120,000-ish already for this year... <.< >.>

Crazy...we are just passing 40,000....which puts us ahead of the previous years as well... I remember when we did 65,000 a year!

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by smithtofuhr86

If you or I shot someone in a hotel room after we tried to taser them because they "attacked" us with a syringe (allegedly) not sure if we would get away with it. Of course they are above the law, most of them are good people but some lack professionalism and let being the law get to their heads I am sure this is the case everywhere. I'll never forget in 2006 an officer running a red light on shaganappi & John Laurie without lights flashing while my wife and I had a month old baby in the backseat on turning left and a flashing green light, he honked his horn at us and quickly turned to pull us over, I said "you didn't have your lights on I am sorry I didn't know you were coming through" his response was "my lights were on and you're lucky I am not arresting you". Top notch cop.

I don't understand why so many people focus so much on downplaying a syringe/needle. There is no way at all that getting stuck with someone else's needle is not considered a valid threat. One poke can be a life sentence of communicable disease, many with reduced life span, others with life long complications, often time with a indeterminate period of time just waiting to find out. Your relationship/marriage will be strained, you'll be on medications for months, you'll endure psychological depression as a result of your decision. I would challenge any of the armchair officers to come and fight with one of their subjects or one of my patients wielding a syringe, I'm sure your bravery level would rapidly decline. I have colleagues on long term illness for liver failure from hepatitis contraction on the job, they will die, long before their time. Deadly force was absolutely warranted

[metallicat]

Came for the Tim Horton's stories; leaving satisfied.

Cops should just never be allowed a coffee or lunch break. They should always be working, and stop all crime before it happens. Except traffic violations from other people. But they should prosecute their own traffic violations.

[4X4]

I once saw a cop run a red light just so he could go to the bank. He even parked his car right in front of the door instead of parking normally, and he also ran inside to beat someone else that was in the parking lot. Dbag.

[Minnie]

[gildo]

Originally Posted by Aleks

I don't understand why so many people focus so much on downplaying a syringe/needle. There is no way at all that getting stuck with someone else's needle is not considered a valid threat. One poke can be a life sentence of communicable disease, many with reduced life span, others with life long complications, often time with a indeterminate period of time just waiting to find out. Your relationship/marriage will be strained, you'll be on medications for months, you'll endure psychological depression as a result of your decision. I would challenge any of the armchair officers to come and fight with one of their subjects or one of my patients wielding a syringe, I'm sure your bravery level would rapidly decline. I have colleagues on long term illness for liver failure from hepatitis contraction on the job, they will die, long before their time. Deadly force was absolutely warranted

I think the point you're missing is do CPS or any officer have exceptions to the norm and the answer is yes. I can almost guarantee that at the hospital I work at that if nurses, doctors' social workers, health care workers etc. starting killing patients cause they felt "threatened" they would be jailed or out of work on the least. Trust me working on the psych unit we are trained to try to de escalate situations and if we can't and the person poses no threat to someone we leave the room....the CPS could have easily left that hotel room that day, the guy posed a harm to only himself heck they entered the room for crying out loud the guy was only a threat to himself before the CPS entered why not try to calm the situation from outside, the taser failed and he was shot bottom line

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by gildo

I think the point you're missing is do CPS or any officer have exceptions to the norm and the answer is yes. I can almost guarantee that at the hospital I work at that if nurses, doctors' social workers, health care workers etc. starting killing patients cause they felt "threatened" they would be jailed or out of work on the least. Trust me working on the psych unit we are trained to try to de escalate situations and if we can't and the person poses no threat to someone we leave the room....the CPS could have easily left that hotel room that day, the guy posed a harm to only himself heck they entered the room for crying out loud the guy was only a threat to himself before the CPS entered why not try to calm the situation from outside, the taser failed and he was shot bottom line

I guess it's no big deal if anyone tells you how you could have done your job better either despite not actually having any experience or training on the subject? I don't even want to know what you do, just speaking general....because it's clear everyone can do it better.....anyhow I'm not saying anything else on the subject