Sven Baertschi Did Not Request Trade From Flames?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

This argument is getting very tired.
The facts do show his results were on par or better than Colborne, Monahan, Glencross, Setoguchi and others when he was given quality time.

First of all, no to the Monahan comparison. That's just plain foolish, especially when you consider the level of competition Sean has faced this year. Setoguchi should also not be comparable because he was given a trial period as a veteran, then banished to the AHL. You could argue point production between Baertschi and both Glencross and Colborne, but points aren't the only thing that wins games, and both those players have a much better 200 foot game than Baertschi, and that's including the fact that both are incredibly inconsistent players.

Satisfactory results for a 13th overall pick are actually pretty good.
I never said he was a slam dunk, those are your words....but why throw away a blue chip prospect when he is performing as expected when put in his expected role?, and why refuse to give him that role after a brief trial.

He wasn't playing to expectations because he wasn't giving maximum effort in all areas of the game and all zones. That's a much more subjective analysis obviously, but I have little doubt that clear expectations were communicated to Sven and he failed to execute those expectations. More to the point, Sven did not respond to coaching tactics, and with the amount of positive examples of these tactics around this team, I choose to believe the individual sample is the problem and not the rest of the data.


And quite frankly, there's been a lot of comments that we shouldn't hold a grudge against a player for trying to do whatever he can to make the NHL. Well guess what, I do hold a grudge. He was given chance after chance and had plenty of opportunities in this organization and didn't find a way to hold down a roster spot when the team has iced arguably it's worst forward lines since the Young Gunz era. I badly wanted him to succeed here, and he disappointed time after time.

Instead of looking in the mirror and finding a way to improve or find a new niche like countless others have (Colborne and Jooris on this team just for a quick example) he continued to beat his head against a wall trying to be a purely skilled player type. However, unlike most pure skill players, he was unable to put up dominant point totals, or even be the top scorer for his own frigging AHL team. Christ...David Wolf has more points than Baertschi (in 7 more games, but the point is still obvious). Any player at this point in their career that is trying to fit a mould that they aren't successful in should immediately try to change their mould, if only to be a more effective player, never mind making the NHL.

Sven's biggest flaw is stubbornness and being unwilling to change. He sees himself as one type of player only, but unfortunately his skills at that level aren't good enough for the NHL, and instead of understanding that and adapting to a new role, he bitches and moans about how things aren't working out, and how he has no intention to re-sign with a club that has done its absolute best to help him reach his ultimate goal of being an NHL player. The Flames invested a high draft pick in him, which as we all see has a lot of value these days, but not only that they invested a lot of time, effort, and money in a player to get him to the NHL. He simply had no appreciation for the organization once he was challenged to be better, or god forbid, different than he imagined himself. I take issue with that, and I take issue with his approach as a pro.

That is why I hold a grudge.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

since the Young Gunz era

I thanked your post, but for putting a Z in ‘guns’, you ought to be flogged mercilessly with a wet noodle.

(Btw, I myself don't hold any grudge against Baertschi, but I think the Flames were wise to cut their losses when they did.)

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The year they were drafted
Baertschi - 85 points in 66 games played
Saprykin - 93 points in 66 games played
St-Louis - 50 points in 56 games played (undrafted, IHL numbers)

The year after they were drafted
Baertschi - 94 points in 47 games played
Saprykin - 66 points in 48 games played
St-Louis - 26 points in 25 games played (St. John)

NHL totals after 66 games
Baertschi - 8G 20A for 28 points
Saprykin - 9G 15A for 24 points
St-Louis - 4G 16A for 20 points

Trying to equate WHL stats with minor league stats does not work sorry

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I was just pointing out that, obviously the jury is still out on Baertschi, but the odds of him being Saprykin v2 are better than him being Martin St-Louis v2.

Do you actually think he is going to be another St-Louis, or better? Not really sure what you are trying to show.

If I were a betting man (and I've lost a lot of bets in my time), I would be more likely inclined to believe Barts has a higher change of being a Saprykin than a MSL. I'm more likely to believe Byron to be a MSL v2 purely due to his drive and desire to be in the NHL. (Not saying Saprykin and Sven necessarily has the same attitude.

But if Barts does well, good for him. I'm not rooting for him to become a Saprykin story. But I'm not as optimistic of success either if his attitude doesn't change. This is purely based on feels and nothing factual.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I thanked your post, but for putting a Z in ‘guns’, you ought to be flogged mercilessly with a wet noodle.

(Btw, I myself don't hold any grudge against Baertschi, but I think the Flames were wise to cut their losses when they did.)

LOL, for some reason I thought the team was marketed that way, trying to be hip for the kids and all. I just looked it up and it was spelled with an S, not a Z. I shall submit to the whipping now.

It's probably because that S looks rather reverse-Z-like.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

It's probably because that S looks rather reverse-Z-like.

Damn, it does, doesn't it?

Maybe you're right after all. The whole ‘Young Guns’ marketing schtick had the appearance of having been cooked up by a kid in kindergarten. Maybe he really was trying to spell it with a Z, but couldn't remember which way a Z goes and drew it backwards.

At least it wasn't the debacle that was the Calgary Radz.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

The facts do show his results were on par or better than ...Monahan ...

[FBI]

Let's never show that Young Guns picture again lol

[Erick Estrada]

Some insight from Corey Pronman on why the offers from other teams just weren't there as the kid simply regressed;

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/story...e-deadline-nhl

Sven Baertschi, LW: For most of his career as an under-20 player, Baertschi was a top-end NHL prospect, and he was the 13th overall pick in his draft class (2011). His skill and offensive IQ are both plus attributes to combine with impressive skating that made him a dangerous scorer in junior. At the under-20 level, he showed fine competitiveness in battles, but since turning pro, his off-puck game has been a major concern. He is a small forward who hasn't succeeded physically or defensively in the pro game -- which has kept his performance ceiling as a pretty good AHL player or, at times, a low-end NHL forward.

The fact that the Canucks offer of a 2nd round pick was by far the best offer shows that most teams seem to share the opinion of good AHL player or low end NHL forward. Really unfortunate for Sven and the Flames but he still has time to put things together unfortunately it won't be in Calgary.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by FBI

Let's never show that Young Guns picture again lol

Agreed!







I still wonder if the concussion at the Olympics was the beginning of the end. He had played so well up until that point and really had trouble finding that level again.

[HOWITZER]

Originally Posted by heep223

Is it just me, or is that index finger insanely long?

[Red Menace]

We'll actually be lucky to get someone who has as good a career as Oleg Saprykin with that 2nd rd pick....
If someone proves they can play in NHL, like I believe Sven did, then you don't throw them away for 2nd rd picks....the odds at finding a NHL asset in pick #50 and beyond is pretty low...
I eagerly anticipate all the hateful responses.....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

We'll actually be lucky to get someone who has as good a career as Oleg Saprykin with that 2nd rd pick....
If someone proves they can play in NHL, like I believe Sven did, then you don't throw them away for 2nd rd picks....the odds at finding a NHL asset in pick #50 and beyond is pretty low...
I eagerly anticipate all the hateful responses.....

You can believe what you want about his ability - that debate is irrelevant. But what do you do with a guy on your AHL team who refuses to re-sign and is waiver eligible next season? Heck, Joe Colborne can (a) play in the NHL and (b) never said he wouldn't re-sign - he was just waiver eligible. And the Leafs traded him for a 4th.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

We'll actually be lucky to get someone who has as good a career as Oleg Saprykin with that 2nd rd pick....
If someone proves they can play in NHL, like I believe Sven did, then you don't throw them away for 2nd rd picks....the odds at finding a NHL asset in pick #50 and beyond is pretty low...
I eagerly anticipate all the hateful responses.....

Brodie, Gaudreau, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Bouma, Ferland and Ortio say hello.

Seriously, you're beating a dead horse here. Let the thread die now.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

We'll actually be lucky to get someone who has as good a career as Oleg Saprykin with that 2nd rd pick....
If someone proves they can play in NHL, like I believe Sven did, then you don't throw them away for 2nd rd picks....the odds at finding a NHL asset in pick #50 and beyond is pretty low...
I eagerly anticipate all the hateful responses.....

hehe. You really are a glutton for this stuff.
I actually agree with most of your post, except for the "prove they can play in the NHL" part. He has shown flashes, but I would not say has proven anything, other than being a devisive player.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Eh, I'd say he's shown he's able to be a productive NHL player, just not consistently.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

We'll actually be lucky to get someone who has as good a career as Oleg Saprykin with that 2nd rd pick....
If someone proves they can play in NHL, like I believe Sven did, then you don't throw them away for 2nd rd picks....the odds at finding a NHL asset in pick #50 and beyond is pretty low...
I eagerly anticipate all the hateful responses.....

What proof is there?

If it was proven that he can play in the NHL, the best offer for him wouldn't have been a mid to late 2nd rounder from a division rival. Unless you think you saw some definitive proof that no NHL team with all the professional management and scouts that money can buy, did not see.

He may very well become an impact NHL player (the odds are against him at this point), but as of right now, he is not one. The fact the Canucks kept him assigned to their AHL team for now should tell you that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Eh, I'd say he's shown he's able to be a productive NHL player, just not consistently.

Isn't consistency a big part of being productive?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Eh, I'd say he's shown he's able to be a productive NHL player, just not consistently.

Offensively productive, yes, moderately so. Without the puck, he's a work in progress. There is a reason why Bob Hartley did not like to use him on the top two lines. He had players who could deliver comparable or higher production and were better at the other areas of the game.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Offensively productive, yes, moderately so. Without the puck, he's a work in progress. There is a reason why Bob Hartley did not like to use him on the top two lines. He had players who could deliver comparable or higher production and were better at the other areas of the game.

Nigel Dawes was on an 18 goal pace his last season with the Flames but he was work in progress without the puck for his entire career. If you are going to be a one-trick pony in the NHL you better have a really good trick like say Phil Kessel.