Kids and writing.

[Bagor]

Just wanted to hear what people's thoughts are on the standard of their kids writing.

My kids (grades 6 & 4) are in the French system here in Ottawa and whilst I am happy with their education so far their writing is absolutely brutal. So much so that their mother has taken it upon herself to teach them writing each evening at home. Speaking with parents with kids in the English system they state similar.

It's one of the few things that we bring up at the PT meetings but the responses are pretty arbitrary and seem to be based on the teacher's personal thoughts on the matter. e.g. "it's not that important anymore as most of their work will be via computer". Granted it varies from year to year with some teachers placing more emphasis on it suggesting it is not curriculum driven.

It just doesn't seem to be a skill that is taught and practiced anymore. Am I missing something? Just like the art of letter writing is pretty much dead, is writing really not that important anymore?

Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

[ricoFlame]

As a teacher, I have trouble believing that there are many teachers out there that believe that writing isn't an important skill moving forward. pretty sad if that is indeed the case.

That said, if the only practice a child is getting in their fundamental life skills (reading, writing, math, etc) is at school, they're likely going to be behind or show gaps in these areas, unless they show natural talents in these areas or are phenomenal self-starters (which seems to be increasingly rare these days, there are more things kids have/are given to occupy their time)

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

As a teacher, I have trouble believing that there are many teachers out there that believe that writing isn't an important skill moving forward. pretty sad if that is indeed the case.

That's straight up from a PT meeting. She just felt that there wasn't as big a need or emphasis on it as before.

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

That said, if the only practice a child is getting in their fundamental life skills (reading, writing, math, etc) is at school, they're likely going to be behind or show gaps in these areas, unless they show natural talents in these areas or are phenomenal self-starters (which seems to be increasingly rare these days, there are more things kids have/are given to occupy their time)

I have never seen them given writing exercises for homework ever. Reading and Math, yes. Writing, no.

Thanks for the response. Have you as a teacher noticed any changes in the standard of writing over time?

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Bagor

That's straight up from a PT meeting. She just felt that there wasn't as big a need or emphasis on it as before.

I have never seen them given writing exercises for homework ever. Reading and Math, yes. Writing, no.

Thanks for the response. Have you as a teacher noticed any changes in the standard of writing over time?

Wow, that is shocking...not good. The quality of writing is definitely lower, no question. I think that societal issues have affected this, kids just have a lot of stuff vying for their attention, they often have a ton of outside stuff going on in their lives at earlier and earlier ages, and parents are typically busier and often both are working, which means home time has different priorities.

I know that my kids are working on it every night, but they have the advantage (or disadvantage) of having two teacher-parents, so they have little choice in the matter.

Really it's a matter of opinion in some regards, but teachers should be able to give you some good resources for working on it at home.

[malcolmk14]

We had an entire PD session this year on printing. The occupational therapist assigned to our school has been in occasionally to work with certain kids on their printing.

By Grade 6, it's not really something we focus on too much in the classroom, unless it's unreadable.

Try some writing at home and watch for things like proper posture, proper holding of the pencil, forming letters properly from the top to the bottom. Try some different pencil grips if gripping the pencil looks like it might be the problem.

I recommended to one of my students to sign up for calligraphy classes - it's helped tremendously.

[loudi94]

Do you mean writing as in cursive or as in putting together coherent sentences into a paragraph?

If it's cursive...forget about it, it's going to die soon. Out of all the things I'm doing with my sixes, I spend no time on it. It's a "nice to know", not a "need to know".

If it's the writing process in general, I notice a degradation in overall ability. Chalk that up to diversity. A severely normal child doesn't get enough feedback or time from a teacher in order to excel. Parents that are active in their child's learning are a huge asset. It's easy to identify them.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by loudi94

If it's cursive...forget about it, it's going to die soon. Out of all the things I'm doing with my sixes, I spend no time on it. It's a "nice to know", not a "need to know".

That was pretty much the attitude of the teacher and one I completely disagree with.
What do you mean, it's going to die soon? You think there is going to be zero need for it?

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Try some writing at home and watch for things like proper posture, proper holding of the pencil, forming letters properly from the top to the bottom. Try some different pencil grips if gripping the pencil looks like it might be the problem.

Yeah, they do writing exercises every night. I'm just astounded that this is something that is given so little no attention at school.

And I know it isn't just my kids. I'm manager of my kid's atom team. The sign in sheet at tournaments is just

[RougeUnderoos]

Is this a question about penmanship, or writing?

[loudi94]

Originally Posted by Bagor

That was pretty much the attitude of the teacher and one I completely disagree with.
What do you mean, it's going to die soon? You think there is going to be zero need for it?


Yeah, they do writing exercises every night. I'm just astounded that this is something that is given so little no attention at school.

And I know it isn't just my kids. I'm manager of my kid's atom team. The sign in sheet at tournaments is just

There is already no need for it. Is there currently a real life application in which cursive is a requirement? I'm not trying to being glib,

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Is this a question about penmanship, or writing?

Penmanship, unless I read it wrong.



Our kids both learnt cursive writing on school. So far all our kids teachers (1 in grade 6 and 1 in grade 3) have emphasised good penmanship. When we do homework with the kids we also let them know that if the teacher can't read your answer (ie: your printing or writing is crap) they can't mark it right.

In the spirit of honesty, I press this point home with my kids because by cursive is horrible, like why aren't you a doctor bad.

[chid]

There are a few students with atrocious printing but they are amazing writers. For years they were held back because their teacher was far too focused on the neatness instead of content of their writing. I understand in early grades the focus on neat penmanship but as they get older they lose a love of writing if it is a constant nag to make their letters look beautiful.

[DataDoxy]

Thought you might find this article interesting...

“When we write, a unique neural circuit is automatically activated,” said Stanislas Dehaene, a psychologist at the Collège de France in Paris. “There is a core recognition of the gesture in the written word, a sort of recognition by mental simulation in your brain.

“And it seems that this circuit is contributing in unique ways we didn’t realize,” he continued. “Learning is made easier.”

Found at http://http://www.nytimes.com/2014/0...ades.html?_r=2

[Russic]

Originally Posted by DataDoxy

Thought you might find this article interesting...

“When we write, a unique neural circuit is automatically activated,” said Stanislas Dehaene, a psychologist at the Collège de France in Paris. “There is a core recognition of the gesture in the written word, a sort of recognition by mental simulation in your brain.

“And it seems that this circuit is contributing in unique ways we didn’t realize,” he continued. “Learning is made easier.”

Found at http://http://www.nytimes.com/2014/0...ades.html?_r=2

I was going to mention this. I don't fully understand it, but there's a difference between note taking on paper and note taking with a computer. I generally try to avoid paper in my life at all costs, but there's something undeniable about needing to write things out on it in certain situations (for me).

[Slava]

Originally Posted by loudi94

There is already no need for it. Is there currently a real life application in which cursive is a requirement? I'm not trying to being glib,

I think that there are many real world applications. I take meeting notes all the time with pen and paper and make notes and write regularly in my occupation. In a course I'm taking right now, the instructor uses flip charts exclusively, and it just works for the course better than a series of powerpoint slides or whatever.

There are definitely work arounds if you really don't want to write, and I can see your point there. One of my kids has dysgraphia, which means working on his writing is virtually a lost cause. He tested in the 4th percentile...which is statistically pathetic! For him we use those work arounds and not really force the issue at all, but at the same time we want him to learn how to write and get his thoughts out.

To me its kind of like the need for learning how to do math when you just have calculators and computers to do the work. We've all seen the cashier who can't count back your change without the register telling them the amount or examples like that. You can function, but these basic skills are so necessary in my opinion.

[loudi94]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...-10021942.html

Finland scraps cursive.

[GGG]

I ditched cursive in about grade nine. (Mid thirties now). Printed for all exams through university and high school so I think the need for cursive is zero.

It is less legible than printing and you don't need the speed when anything more than note taking is typed now. Typing quickly is likely a more important skill to learn than cursive.

For me I've gone paperless completely using a tablet and stylus for note taking now using printing for input.

I'm all for getting rid of it. One writing system (printing) is good enough for written communication.

[Cflames_12.5]

I thought either you got it or you don't. My penmanship is horrible yet my oldest daughter who is in grade 3 has neater printing than mine. At my daughters school they are moving more into the computer ages. My youngest daughter kindergarten class each student has an Ipad they use for reading and numbers. My oldest daughter grade 3 class has learnt how to make a power point for their project about different kinds of animals. Each grade 1-3 class has a smart board that the kids use to learn their math and other thing on. Their school is kindergarten to grade 3.


I can only imagine what things will be like when my girls reach high school.

[fredr123]

My daughter is in grade 3 and they are learning cursive writing. She's come to me for help because I'm the only person my wife knows who still writes like that.

The majority of my work is done on the computer but there is still a need to take a lot of notes quickly on a daily basis. I just find, for me anyway, that writing in cursive is faster than my printing.

Maybe some day I will be typing my notes instead of writing them. However, until it's as easy to type a note on a tablet or something as it is to just grab a pen and paper, I will still be handwriting notes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cflames_12.5

I can only imagine what things will be like when my girls reach high school.

My understanding is that school will be totally different then.

I understand that there are a number of changes coming to high school in thie province. I have a limited understanding of them, but they sound positive.

Eventually they will funnel down to all the grades.

Perhaps Double D can speak to this more.

[afc wimbledon]

Is there a need for cursive? yes, it stops you looking like an ill educated knob if you have to leave a note for a client, boss, girl your trying to impress etc.