Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[polak]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I have two degrees, work in healthcare, and I have several friends in law enforcement. Clearly I'm more qualified than you to make definitive judgements on this case!

Yeah but I know a guy who took First Aid once. So there's that.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I don't want society to rehabilitate murderers, societies garbage should be properly disposed of not recycled.

It's a good thing life is just so black and white, isn't it?

[cracher]

Originally Posted by polak

Pfft.
Too me it sounds like your argument is to do what is best for the killer.

Are you going to tell me that releasing a mentally ill person who has to be medicated for the rest of his life, routinely visit medical specialists, live in publically funded housing, eat under public dime and who probably won't be able to hold down any type of meaningful work due to the public nature of his crime is better than keeping him off the streets and not having any risk of him killing someone else?

Face it, releasing him is more than likely going cost society nearly as much as keeping him under lock and key and he's probably not going to be able to contribute much to society as a whole. There's pretty much no "good for society" in this scenerio. The only good that would come out of this is the hope that one mentally ill man is better. Too bad it comes at such risk.

At least observe him for more than a few years before letting him walk go out unsupervised. Why can't he serve a normal sentence under supervision? That would give us tons of reassurance that he's indeed safe before you set him free.

Assuming mental illness = societal degenerate is a very dangerous game to play.

[Flames_Gimp]

we must help this poor soul who lost his way, poor guy is going through such hardship. We should start a crowd funding campaign for him. Come on, let's help get Li back on his feet.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

we must help this poor soul who lost his way, poor guy is going through such hardship. We should start a crowd funding campaign for him. Come on, let's help get Li back on his feet.

You're becoming a caricature.

[Flames_Gimp]

I just find the battle for Li's rights in this thread hilarious.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I just find the battle for Li's rights in this thread hilarious.

Your lack of compassion for those with a mental illness is quite sad. Li didn't choose to have the horrible disease. If you want to blame someone, blame the negative stigma that thrives in the world today that keeps others from seeking out help.

We are also not a barbaric society that executes people due to someones thirst for revenge.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I just find the battle for Li's rights in this thread hilarious.

Well maybe try acting like an adult and explain why.

[Flames_Gimp]

I have compassion for the victim. I also believe that once you cross a certain line, even if due to schizophrenia , there is no going back.

[Wormius]

It's not a one or the other deal. You can feel genuinely terrible for both parties.

[Daradon]

Heck, all the people on the bus too. The driver, the first responders, like the one officer here we were talking about last. Lots of victims. Huge tragedy. Even in the national psyche.

But a misguided notion of justice or eye for eye thinking against Li doesn't help any of these people.

I do still feel there is a public safety issue here as I mentioned. But we'll see what the doctors say. I know I'd be fearful if he was living on my street or in my group home. And it's not cause I think he's a bad guy, or because he hasn't served his due. Just because, as people here have mentioned, and I have experience with on a much lesser scale, sometimes people don't always think they need to take their meds. They feel better, and taking medication like this isn't a pleasant experience, and sometimes they just don't. Heck, sometimes they forget.

I personally would feel better with observation for a while longer yet. But as I said, we'll wait and see what the doctors say. It's still under review.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I don't want society to rehabilitate murderers, societies garbage should be properly disposed of not recycled.

Yeah, same with the disabled, we should just do what we do with race horses and put them down, instead of investing in improving their quality of life and working to facilitate their participation in society.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Heck, all the people on the bus too. The driver, the first responders, like the one officer here we were talking about last. Lots of victims. Huge tragedy. Even in the national psyche.

But a misguided notion of justice or eye for eye thinking against Li doesn't help any of these people.

I do still feel there is a public safety issue here as I mentioned. But we'll see what the doctors say. I know I'd be fearful if he was living on my street or in my group home. And it's not cause I think he's a bad guy, or because he hasn't served his due. Just because, as people here have mentioned, and I have experience with on a much lesser scale, sometimes people don't always think they need to take their meds. They feel better, and taking medication like this isn't a pleasant experience, and sometimes they just don't. Heck, sometimes they forget.

I personally would feel better with observation for a while longer yet. But as I said, we'll wait and see what the doctors say. It's still under review.

Exactly. He will not be able to contribute to society in any meaningful way. Why not keep him under supervision for longer? It's not costing us much more than paying for his group home, food and continued medical treatment and it just offers us more reassurance that he doesn't reoffend.

Why are we so eager to let this guy go?

[polak]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, same with the disabled, we should just do what we do with race horses and put them down, instead of investing in improving their quality of life and working to facilitate their participation in society.

Say he has another episode. Then do we "put him down"?

There are many people that are never allowed to be unsupervised because they are mentally unfit for it. THIS GUY CUT SOMEONES HEAD OFF and after only 7 years you guys are okay with letting him go unsupervised. You know, just cause doctors don't think he is a threat doesn't mean we have to let him go. We could keep him under supervision in a group home and it would be a completely humane, responsible and a legitimately normal path to go down. "Decapitation Tendencies" is a symptom that should warrant extra attention.

The "pro-Li" crowd is acting like it's between letting him go unsupervised or executing him.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, same with the disabled, we should just do what we do with race horses and put them down, instead of investing in improving their quality of life and working to facilitate their participation in society.

Wow that's like not even in the same universe as a murderer.

MOD EDIT: Removed inappropriate comment.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I have compassion for the victim. I also believe that once you cross a certain line, even if due to schizophrenia , there is no going back.

This I agree with. I actually feel sorry for Li having to live with what he did, but I also feel he has proven to be a very credible threat, if he is unmedicated. I also feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer as well as he was hearing voices that made him do what he did, but he should have never seen the outside of a prison/institution either.

I do not feel he should ever be allowed into the public again. There is zero guarantee this guy won't just say f-it, and walk away from his halfway house without his medication, and start rage-cannibalizing people again. Zero guarantee. As flamesgimp has tried to say. There is a certain line that once you cross, there should be no room for a do-over. And Li crossed it. I am not saying I wouldn't forgive the guy for his actions, as they truly weren't his own.... but that is as far as I would go. I would forgive him, but keep him locked up for the publics safety.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, same with the disabled, we should just do what we do with race horses and put them down, instead of investing in improving their quality of life and working to facilitate their participation in society.

If a symptom of being handicapped was chopping off peoples heads, eating pieces of the corpse, mentally traumatizing a busload of onlookers for the rest of their lives, and ultimately leading to the suicide of one of the first responders.... I am sure Flamesgimp would agree with this statement.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by polak

Exactly. He will not be able to contribute to society in any meaningful way. Why not keep him under supervision for longer? It's not costing us much more than paying for his group home, food and continued medical treatment and it just offers us more reassurance that he doesn't reoffend.

Why are we so eager to let this guy go?

I'm not sure anyone here is eager on letting him go. Many have said they were torn like I did. It was just the usual comments about justice and punishment and fairness some of us were against. There is no fairness here, for anyone. And justice has already been served to the best of our society's ability. Li's progress in rehabilitation has nothing to do with any punishment he did or did not deserve, or now deserves. That question has been answered already, and to the best or our abilities I believe.

Moving on from here, there is only the question about public safety, which even though I feel as I do, I will admit I am very worried about. And I think that's where a lot of us are. Stuck on that one question. Personally I would like to see more observation, but as I said, we'll wait to see what the experts say.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

The "pro-Li" crowd .

Yeah "pro-Li"........that is exactly my position.......

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by polak

The "pro-Li" crowd is acting like it's between letting him go unsupervised or executing him.

No, that over the top comment only appeared in response to one of FlameGimps over the top comments. Like a lot of arguments, things quickly went nuclear.

I do think though, that most of us (on both sides) are in the middle ground I presented in my argument.