Feb 3 Practice. Sven and Granlund likely scratched. Hiller starts.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't understand the Byron hate. He's a damn good fourth liner. Why are we expecting him to score like a first liner? We don't hold Bollig or Stajan to that same standard.

Dude brings speed, great two-way play, some offensive ability (although he has been snakebitten lately) and heart. He's never been a liability on the ice. He's a prototypical 4th liner in today's NHL.

I knew immediately after he hit the post after the 2 on 1 with Sven that people would want to punish him somehow. Like clockwork, here we are.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Agree that the lines are good.

But that also makes me curious as to what management is doing / planning? I understand they need a spare body in case of injury, but they have 2 developing young forwards playing sparingly (plus one injured) while Glencross is on the mend.

waiving McGrattan obviously gave them an extra spot and given the injuries of Glencross and Smid, they now have 3 extra spots for young guys. I think the opportunity to work with Baertschi, Granlund and Wotherspoon in training is beneficial to them and for those guys, I think training and working with the coaches at the big club is probably more valuable than AHL time right now. All of those are players who are a part of the future (at least in my opinion), so why not have them train with the big club when you have the spots to do that? If you can get them into actual games (like Sven yesterday), it's a bonus.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I knew immediately after he hit the post after the 2 on 1 with Sven that people would want to punish him somehow. Like clockwork, here we are.

Was with Gaudreau IIRC.

And please change your avatar.

[AcGold]

This is how teams win championships. 2 guys injured and still guys that played a good game get scratched. Good isn't good enough, its amazing how so many guys have upped their game this year.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Was with Gaudreau IIRC.

And please change your avatar.

Yes with Johnny, my mistake.

No.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Anduril

And please change your avatar.

Get Ad Block, if you don't have it already you should. Then just block it. Works like a charm.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by heep223

Get Ad Block, if you don't have it already you should. Then just block it. Works like a charm.

Why would you want to block the best avatar on CP?

[Huntingwhale]

You guys should have seen it before I cropped it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Because when you've put 11 of your past 12 breakaways into the opposing goalie's chest, as well as every other offensive chance you've had recently, it might not be such a bad idea to take a game off. It's worked for other players this season - Jones, Gaudreau, Raymond, even Hiller.

Why's it gotta be chalked up to just punishment?

I think a fourth line winger that gets breakaways is better than a fourth line player that does nothing.

Hell getting three guys to chase him down the ice and expense energy pays off in the game in some way through 60 minutes.

Byron will eventually be cast aside, but he does too much from a energy generation standpoint to lose his job now.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't understand the Byron hate. He's a damn good fourth liner. Why are we expecting him to score like a first liner? We don't hold Bollig or Stajan to that same standard.

Dude brings speed, great two-way play, some offensive ability (although he has been snakebitten lately) and heart. He's never been a liability on the ice. He's a prototypical 4th liner in today's NHL.

Because anyone who gets in the way of the sexy young skilled prospects will get hated on. It doesn't matter whether the role that the player is in fits the sexy young skill guy or not.

We should have a whole team of sexy young skilled players. 4 lines of Sven Baertschi's! Screw the role players like Bollig, Byron, Stajan.

[Bingo]

I did like Baertschi's game last night though. Very good sign that the guy gets it and is developing into an NHL player.

He was stronger on the puck, more confident, didn't panic in his own zone.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I did like Baertschi's game last night though. Very good sign that the guy gets it and is developing into an NHL player.

He was stronger on the puck, more confident, didn't panic in his own zone.

Last night was Sven's most complete game in the NHL, IMO. He was really good. You can see things are beginning to come together for him.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

What is increasingly clear is that 'some' are too emotionally invested in Sven's success. He was 'OK' last night, not spectacular, not terribad...just OK.

If Backlund is back then Sven should sit, based on last nights game. Simple. Sven is not one of our top 12 available forwards at the moment.

Accurate post is accurate.

Not sure what Sven showed last night that remotely suggests he should displace a current roster player.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Last night was Sven's most complete game in the NHL, IMO. He was really good. You can see things are beginning to come together for him.

Sven was better in a couple games earlier this year IMO. But nothing wrong with his game last night, but nothing too exciting either.

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Byron was also good why should he sit?

Because yet again he missed a glorious chance ?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I did like Baertschi's game last night though. Very good sign that the guy gets it and is developing into an NHL player.

He was stronger on the puck, more confident, didn't panic in his own zone.

I actually noticed he chased Byfuglien behind the Jets goal and hit / tried to muscle him off the puck. Byfuglien still pulled away with the puck, but it was good to see the intent. That's the kind of contact that he has generally avoided.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I actually noticed he chased Byfuglien behind the Jets goal and hit / tried to muscle him off the puck. Byfuglien still pulled away with the puck, but it was good to see the intent. That's the kind of contact that he has generally avoided.

Yeah, that was good. He tried to get the puck - on thing I think someone needs to teach him is how to come out of the right side of the puck when doing so. Not that it would have worked on Big Buf, but in his past callup he would head to the puck but always find the defender's body in between. The really good forecheckers seem to anticipate the defender turning and manage to disrupt the play. If you just go in and bump the back of the defender as he's moving the puck you end up behind the play going the other way. It's not a size or muscle thing - Byron does it pretty well. It's more thinking ahead.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't understand the Byron hate. He's a damn good fourth liner. Why are we expecting him to score like a first liner? We don't hold Bollig or Stajan to that same standard.

Dude brings speed, great two-way play, some offensive ability (although he has been snakebitten lately) and heart. He's never been a liability on the ice. He's a prototypical 4th liner in today's NHL.

...-50lbs, give or take.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Ya I agree with you on this, I think just 1 game out just to give him a chance to watch the game and maybe learn something. Spend some extra time watching some game tape of himself and others doing what he does.

Might give him a bit more motivation as well, just a boast in determination when trying to score goals.

I get what you are trying to say, but it just doesn't make sense for Byron really.

You sit guys out due to being displaced or not putting in the required effort. I don't think that either has happened.

You can also sit guys out when there is a lot of effort, but they just aren't fulfilling their role - like when Hartley benched Backlund last year, and Gaudreau this year, for not providing enough scoring.

Byron is always hustling out there. He is strong on the backcheck. He is strong on the forecheck. He doesn't make many (if any) errors out there. He gives the team a lot of speed, and he occasionally even sets up other players for prime chances (like Gaudreau the other night, but the goalie made a really good save).

You can't sit Byron out to 'teach' him how to score goals. Yes, his breakaways have been underwhelming, but who else is going to hustle that much to create a breakaway? There are many other goal scorers on the team that haven't been able to generate a fraction of the amount of clean breakaways that Byron has. Getting him to sit and look at the game from above isn't going to teach him how to score on the opposing goalie - I just don't really see how it would. Maybe it is something he can work on in practice more. Sounds more like a 'skills coach' thing more than a 'sit down and learn for a game or two' type of thing.

Raymond got sat not for a lack of effort, but because he simply wasn't contributing as much - offence and defence. Sitting a guy out now and then in the same predicament I think makes a lot of sense - and it seemed to work for Raymond, as not only has he been generating a bit more offence, but he hasn't looked as out of place any longer as he did when he returned from injury. Aside from the missed breakaways, I can't think of any instance where Byron has looked out of place, or deserving in any way of being sat. Heck, sometimes I wish the Flames had another Byron or two - even at that size.

Byron will eventually be displaced - and when it happens, it will be a good thing. Until there is another player who can PK as well as Byron, who can provide that blazing speed coupled with his tenacity, and who is versatile enough to play up and down the lineup like he is, I just can't see a scenario where Byron gets sat.

I also think he is a perfect linemate for any rookie coming up. Everyone knows Hudler has been great, but I also think Byron helped Gaudreau out when things started turning around (Gaudreau - Colborne - Byron). Sven having issues at the beginning of the season playing hard every shift? Hartley pairs him with Byron, and that line was pretty good for a few games. Him and Backlund on the PK seem so good.

Let's take a look at some numbers (and this isn't all directed at you foshizzle - don't want you to think that I am picking on you or anything - lots of this little long rant has more to do with how Byron is somehow getting hated lately on these boards by many posters, more than anything you have said actually):

http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results

Notice where Byron starts, and how big that blue circle is? In short, he gets sent over the boards in the defensive zone, and gets a more positive CORSI rating than any other 4th liner (or 3rd liner!). Not that CORSI is the be all and end all, but it does seem to agree with my personal 'eye test' on him. He positively contributes to the team, even with missed breakaways. I would rather he get the odd breakaway and miss, than not have anyone else get a breakaway. He drives possession incredibly well (and on a side note, very surprised that Jones isn't, considering I thought he was a very strong driver last season).

I think the only problem with Byron is that he isn't that great of a finisher. I think he is underrated in terms of playmaking, and I think he is a 'skilled player' out there and handles the puck very well, just not much of a sniper. I can't think of any other weakness to his game. Is he irreplaceable? No, he isn't. However, at this time, there is no one ready to replace him in the lineup, and sitting him out for a game or two is probably the wrong message to send him and the rest of the team, I would say. He continually earns his ice time.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

What is increasingly clear is that 'some' are too emotionally invested in Sven's success. He was 'OK' last night, not spectacular, not terribad...just OK.

If Backlund is back then Sven should sit, based on last nights game. Simple. Sven is not one of our top 12 available forwards at the moment.

Speaking for myself, you probably haven't noticed just how much of a non Sven fanboy I am. Little to no emotional investment. I didn't even agree with the callup a week ago - thought it simply wasn't warranted. But last night was the first time in a long time I've been able to say "you know what? Sven looked pretty good out there, I think we should keep him in." While some found his game to be just OK, I thought he looked solid, and like he was actually playing an NHLers game out there. That's high praise coming from me, when it comes to Baertschi.