Toronto is no good

[Resolute 14]

I love how those people in the lower bowl pay like $400 per seat and end up missing half of every period.

[Erick Estrada]

I don't recall it always being that way but I've really noticed over the past few years how the lower bowl half empty until 3-5 minutes into every period. I thought Nonis did solid work for the Canucks but he's been a disaster with the Leafs.

[Resolute 14]

Its been that way for as long as I can remember. The suits that sit in those seats are there for prestige, not for the hockey.

[Coach]

I just can't see Kessel being an effective player past his early-thirties. He's going to Heatley his way out of the league.

I personally don't think he's all that effective now. Stamp and scream about goals/points all you want, it's only a piece of the puzzle to winning games.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

What, exactly, would that make Kessel?

More importantly, how exactly does this all work in your mind? Is Phaneuf is an awesome defenceman - one of the world's best - right up until you trade him, at which point you will suddenly see the light and realize he is overpaid and overrated?

Speaking of finally seeing the light, are you ready to admit that the Leafs made a rather large mistake trading Gunnarson for Polak yet?

The best fat guy in hockey?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

What, exactly, would that make Kessel?

More importantly, how exactly does this all work in your mind? Is Phaneuf is an awesome defenceman - one of the world's best - right up until you trade him, at which point you will suddenly see the light and realize he is overpaid and overrated?

Speaking of finally seeing the light, are you ready to admit that the Leafs made a rather large mistake trading Gunnarson for Polak yet?

What in Carl Gunnarson's play this year makes you say the Leafs made a big mistake? He's played ok in St-Louis, nothing great, and taken a smaller role with much easier minutes. Roman Polak has played just as good.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Leafs are a complete mess. The Phanuef-Kessel leadership group has to be the worst in hockey especially when you take their contracts into consideration. Both players should be in their absolute prime. They have some nice support pieces but this team is in big trouble and would be wise to tear it down and rebuild through the draft.

The return some Leaf fans think they will get for their players is laughable

What returns have you heard? The rumour was, Dion was worth about Mike Richards, which is crazy.

Where are these huge expectations?

[AC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The best fat guy in hockey?

How dare you. Rick Nash and his neckbeard double-chin would like a word with you.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

What in Carl Gunnarson's play this year makes you say the Leafs made a big mistake? He's played ok in St-Louis, nothing great, and taken a smaller role with much easier minutes. Roman Polak has played just as good.

Not ready to admit it then. Ok. I'll ask again after the Leafs dump Polak.

[sureLoss]

McKenzie says he is hearing that Shanahan's first choice to replace Nonis is Rob Blake. However McKenzie doesn't believe Blake will leave California

http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/worth...-leafs-next-gm

[bluejays]

And what has Rob Blake done as a management exec? Shanahan's hire was a joke to begin. Hiring a kissass like Shanahan was ownerships way of meddling in the hockey operations. Blake to be a first time GM in Toronto? Sounds like ownership wants even more say in hockey operations. Great job they're doing over here.

[powderjunkie]

I think Kessel's contract is fair value, but I don't think there are that many teams that would be willing to give up much to get him.

Rangers, Islanders or Penguins are the main teams I could see trading for him...maybe Boston, San Jose, Columbus?

Chris Kreider +?

Josh Bailey + ?

Sutter + ? or Bennett + Spaling + ? Sell high on Hornqvist?

Eriksson + Bartkowski + ?

Tomas Hertl?

I think Kessel is a very good player, but if I'm a GM I don't think I'm wanting to give up much more than anything listed above (obviously some picks and prospects need to add, but I'm not giving blue chippers), and all require Kessel to eat some cap for a few years...

I think it's hard to move an $8M salary during the season, so a draft time thing would be more likely.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Of course teams would love his offense, but they would also expect a complete game from someone who makes over 10% of their entire salary cap room. Not to mention a leadership role that he simply has never shown he has.

Im truly curious what you think that his value would be. Knowing his deficiencies, that he has 56 million dollars still owed after this year, and that he isnt even a ppg player in his Leaf career (never mind his +/- totals)....I would really like to be informed what that return would be.

here are 3 random teams...what would the deal look like with each?

Washington, Dallas, Winnipeg

Soooo.....Big Tuna......am i now to ascertain you are not going to answer this inquiry then?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not ready to admit it then. Ok. I'll ask again after the Leafs dump Polak.

So you think Gunnarsson has looked good on the Blues?

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

So you think Gunnarsson has looked good on the Blues?

Both of them play Top 4 for their respective teams, and tied with 8 points, although Gunnarsson has played 9 less games due to injury. Ice time and avg shifts are about the same.

Could be a product of being on a good team, but Gunnarsson is a +11 vs -11 for Polak

Blues fans may know better and can speak on actually watching him play,but from the numbers, yes, Gunnarsson has been good for the Blues

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Both of them play Top 4 for their respective teams, and tied with 8 points, although Gunnarsson has played 9 less games due to injury. Ice time and avg shifts are about the same.

Could be a product of being on a good team, but Gunnarsson is a +11 vs -11 for Polak

Blues fans may know better and can speak on actually watching him play,but from the numbers, yes, Gunnarsson has been good for the Blues

Let's be serious, you can't judge +/- from a Ken Hitchcock top cup contender to the Leafs.

Polak has been fine for the Leafs. There is no "Mistake" in that trade. The fact is, Gunnarrson hasn't looked as good since his hip problems. And he has a much easier job since moving to the Blues.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Both of them play Top 4 for their respective teams, and tied with 8 points, although Gunnarsson has played 9 less games due to injury. Ice time and avg shifts are about the same.

Could be a product of being on a good team, but Gunnarsson is a +11 vs -11 for Polak

Blues fans may know better and can speak on actually watching him play,but from the numbers, yes, Gunnarsson has been good for the Blues

Polak has also been a disaster in terms of possession. Put simply, the Maple Leafs downgraded in that trade.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by saillias

Wow he has a freaking Conn Smythe. He literally scored the Stanley Cup winning goal. you are unreal.

Dave Bolland scored a cup winning goal.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Of course teams would love his offense, but they would also expect a complete game from someone who makes over 10% of their entire salary cap room. Not to mention a leadership role that he simply has never shown he has.

Im truly curious what you think that his value would be. Knowing his deficiencies, that he has 56 million dollars still owed after this year, and that he isnt even a ppg player in his Leaf career (never mind his +/- totals)....I would really like to be informed what that return would be.

here are 3 random teams...what would the deal look like with each?

Washington, Dallas, Winnipeg

Funny how you bring up this worthless stat. He's top 5 in NHL points the last 4 years. But you bring that up. That stat includes his non-prime years when he played with Joey Crabb and yet still got over 30 goals and over 60 points.

Kessel is going nowhere without at least a first rounder and top prospect. He's in his prime, completely healthy, can score playing with anyone, and is a top offensive star.

[bubbsy]

Sounds like he's exactly what the leads need given their scoring deficiencies