Fitting the Pieces: What Lineup Does Our Roster Make?

[Bingo]

I think guys missing Culkin on their lists are in for a surprise ... the way the guy is piling up points in the AHL as a rookie AHL defenseman is pretty shocking. I thought Kulak was that guy but he's been passed by Culkin this year.

Kerr was saying yesterday that he's heard rumblings that the Flames are salivating at getting him into some NHL action in the second half of the year (paraphrasing like crazy).

Other first year pro's that are making a case for not needing more seasoning are Arnold and of course Poirier, while Wotherspoon is likely done at the AHL level too. The Flames could get crazy young next season.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

here's how I see things in the near future

Gaudreau-Bennett-Poirier
UFA/trade-Monahan-Hudler
Raymond-Backlund-Granlund
Ferland-Bouma-Smith

Gio-Brodie
UFA/trade-UFA/Trade
Wotherspoon-Russell

Hiller
Ortio

I like the 1st and did some changes to the rest. My lineup in 3-5 years


Gaudreau-Bennett-Poirier
Granlund-Monahan-draft 2015/2016?
Ferland/Granlund-Jankowski-Jooris/Smith/Carroll
Klimchuk-Arnold/sign-Smith/Carroll/Jooris

Gio-Brodie
Hickey-2015 1ST ROUND(Culkin or draft later on maybe?)
Wotherspoon-Culkin/Kanzig(Mattsson,Rafikov)

Gillies
Ortio

I have Jooris, Smith and Carroll interchangeable on 3rd & 4th line.

Although I don't want to admit it but Gio is not getting any younger(will he still be here in 5 years?) and that is maybe where our 1st this year slides in in the distant future and someone like Culkin slides into the 2nd pairing.

This of course would mean that the guys we have in the system develop into NHLers and does not take into account our 2nd onward this year or future drafts.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think guys missing Culkin on their lists are in for a surprise ... the way the guy is piling up points in the AHL as a rookie AHL defenseman is pretty shocking. I thought Kulak was that guy but he's been passed by Culkin this year.

Kerr was saying yesterday that he's heard rumblings that the Flames are salivating at getting him into some NHL action in the second half of the year (paraphrasing like crazy).

Other first year pro's that are making a case for not needing more seasoning are Arnold and of course Poirier, while Wotherspoon is likely done at the AHL level too. The Flames could get crazy young next season.

That will be great, but another logjam at a posistion we have too many of.

He shoots left, and maybe I'm a bit of a stickler than most but D is where handedness matters IMO. I see him taking a spot away from Sieloff or Wotherspoon in the future, with us still needing to find 2 more options at RD (if Wideman doesn't have long-term staying power)

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by Split98

That will be great, but another logjam at a posistion we have too many of.

He shoots left, and maybe I'm a bit of a stickler than most but D is where handedness matters IMO. I see him taking a spot away from Sieloff or Wotherspoon in the future, with us still needing to find 2 more options at RD (if Wideman doesn't have long-term staying power)

Many teams have this issue, even right now with Gio and Brodie and I don't think there is anyone who would say that breaking them up put in a right handed defenceman would be a good thing. Some times it just works and sometimes it doesn't but imo that is no reason to hold him back if he is showing that he is better than any alternative out there. I personally have no problem with it, would be ideal if he shot right but two left defensemen isn't the end of the world.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by lanny9

Many teams have this issue, even right now with Gio and Brodie and I don't think there is anyone who woud say that breaking them to out in a right handed defenceman would be a good thing. Some times it just works and sometimes it doesn't but imo that is no reason to hold him back if he is showing that he is better than any alternative out there. I personally have no problem with it, would be ideal if he shot right but two left defensemen isn't the end of the world.

Great point. I'm so used to Gio and Brodie working so well together I forgot they are both left.

[GioforPM]

I'm so old I remember when most players shot right. I would think it's more important for guys who are on PP and PK a lot.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by Split98

Great point. I'm so used to Gio and Brodie working so well together I forgot they are both left.

I know what you mean, I had to think about it for a minute and remembered at the start of the season was thinking they should break them up to share responsibilities etc, but now I realize that would have been foolish (last few games exempt)

[ForeverFlameFan]

Didn't Hartley try Wideman/Brodie and Gio/Russell for part of a game and it didn't work out?

[SeanCharles]

Gaudreau-Bennett-Hudler
Baertschi-Monahan-Poirier
Granlund-Backlund-Colborne
Bouma-Jooris-Ferland

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Wideman
Smid-Wotherspoon

Ramo
Ortio

[CliffFletcher]

2016/17 season

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Raymond-Backlund-Granlund
Ferland-Bennet-Poirier
(2015 1st rounder/UFA)-Jooris-Bouma

Gio-Brodie
Russel-(2015 1st rounder/UFA)
Wotherspoon-Culkin

Ramo
Ortio

That's a very young, and not especially large lineup. I could easily see Granlund and Russel moved for size on defence or the wing.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Split98

2 so far have tried Jooris at RW. Can he play RW well or is that wishful shoehorning? If so... I'll be editing mine already...

Jooris played RW for a good number of games last season with the Heat due to the too many centres issue they had going on there. He didn't look too out of place in that position, although I think he's looking better playing Centre on the Flames.

[ForeverFlameFan]

As much as I'd love a forward this upcoming draft, I would definitely like to get Jeremy Roy. Would definitely fill a need of an offensive RHD.

[CsInMyBlood]

Gaudreau-Backlund-Hudler
Granlund-Bennett-Poirier
Baertschi-Monahan-Ferland
Byron/Smith-Jooris-Bouma

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Wideman
UFA-Wotherspoon

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think the Flames defensive prospects are underrated.

Wotherspoon
Kulak
Culkin
Gilmour
Hickey

I think those guys all have top 4 ceilings.

Kanzig
Sieloff
Ramage
Ollas-Mattsson

I think these guys are all of the 'stay at home' defensive-defenders, but they can all move the puck decently as well (even Kanzig from all my viewings is much better than people give him credit for). They just don't have the offensive ceilings that the preceding group has.

Wildcard in Rafikov who displays traits from both groups (I like to think of him as a Culkin-Sieloff hybrid - great puck mover with offensive upside, but loves to play with sandpaper and is very physical and aggravating to play against).

Now look at the Flames' top 4 defencemen:
Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman

Let's write that out in a different way as to how they entered the league:
Undrafted FA - 4th round pick
3rd round pick - 8th round pick

How about this way:
NHL's point-leading and Norris favorite this year - NHL's 5th highest point leader
Tied for 40th - Leading goal scorer


Let's write that in a different way again:
31 year old - 24 year old
27 year old - 31 year old

From what we can see, there isn't exactly a 'rush' to replace anyone (yes, not even Wideman!) in the top 4. Those are stats that the rest of the NHL should be envious of. This allows for all the defensive prospects to slowly season in the AHL and be brought along very nicely. It also shows us that at the very least, we simply can not discount the possibility that one (or more) of the already drafted defencemen won't develop even into a top-pairing type. Count on it? No, of course not, but we can't discount it either. A look at the rest of the NHL's elite defencemen tells you essentially the same thing, while looking strictly at pedigree has some definite hits, but some big misses as well. Pedigree seems so much more important to top-line forwards - especially centers - than it does to defencemen.

I also do believe that if given the choice this upcoming draft (what some are speculating as the best draft since '03 by the way, or at the very least on par with 2013), the Flames take a defencemen with their first pick. Burke and Treliving both have a history of doing so (one look at Phoenix tells you all you need to know about that from Treliving's perspective if he had any say there). If not a defencemen, a right-shooting forward of the center/RW variety (though I do believe the Flames will take BPA regardless of position, but if there is a pack of players that are close, expect what I noted above).

Forwards I won't get into. I think everyone is rather comfortable with how the prospect pool is shaping up, with perhaps the exception of a RH RW'er. Poirier I think will give us a good shot at a top RW'er, but I would love to have another behind him as well (and he does shoot left). Other than that, I don't think there is anything to complain about.

Center has loads of options and guys that slot well - top line right down to bottom line. Monahan and Bennett have the top two lines wrapped up I think for the future (like, decade?), and then it is a battle between Backlund, Granlund, Arnold, Knight, Reinhart and whomever else I am forgetting. Jankowski to me is the wildcard. I do think (and most I know don't share this view) that he has top-line potential - size, skill, IQ). I do think he will eventually end up becoming a 3rd line center, or a 2nd line winger.

I am liking the size the Flames have in the system. I was really worried with the size of the prospects - Gaudreau, Baertschi and Klimchuk - all sub 6' guys. However, Ferland is really on the cusp of making the team (and dare I say he plays even bigger than his 6'2" presence?), Monahan 6'2", Bennett at 6'1" (if you believe the Flames' site) and plays with sandpaper, Poirier at 6'1". Colborne at 6'5". Jankowski at 6'4". Hunter Smith - a legitimate prospect with hands and who I do think will end up being a 3rd liner - 6'7".

There are going to be many legitimately good prospects - both on forward and on defence - that get pushed out. I expect Treliving to start making a couple of trades in order to manage these assets in the best way possible. I love Reinhart, but I do think he is getting pushed out. Those bottom two lines just have way too much competition, and unless he moves to RW (LH shot, so Knight gets the advantage anyways), I just don't think he makes it long-term. There are going to be some tough decisions being made at the deadline this year and during the off-season that many people are not going to like at all (everyone has certain favorites that they will hate being traded away).

Some moves will be for futures - just gives the organization more shots later down the road and extends the number of RFA-eligible players when this team becomes a cap team. Hopefully some moves will be of the 'quantity for quality' trades taking advantage of a team's cap situation and getting a good player for lesser parts.

I find it very difficult to come up with lineups for the future. All I can write is:

Gaudreau - Bennett - Poirier
x - Monahan - x

Giordano-Brodie
x-x
x-x

The prospects are so competitive, and there is still this draft which can alter things in so many ways. What if the Flames do end up bottoming-out? You add a guy that pushes Bennett to the wing? You add in a top-pairing defencemen? You sell at the deadline on guys like Glencross and Hudler? The whole dynamic can shift quite a bit this year. I think after this upcoming draft, we will have a better idea of what we can expect moving forward in terms of guessing at a future lineup. This draft is simply too strong, and Calgary can really go either way in the standings and still have good assets to sell for the deadline if it comes down to it.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I find it very difficult to come up with lineups for the future. All I can write is:

Gaudreau - Bennett - Poirier
x - Monahan - x

Giordano-Brodie
x-x
x-x

Gaudreau - Bennett - Poirier
x - Monahan - x

Gio-Brodie
x-Russell
x-x

There's your long term core ie. 5+ years that we are building this team around (Russell is included as a #4 IMO). Gio will transition from top pair to a leadership bottom pair role as he gets older.

Can that core win us a championship? There are many, many factors in play and it's impossible to know but from what I am seeing sitting here at the end of 2014 I think that yes, they have the potential to.

[FlameZilla]

With Stajan, Raymond, Bollig, Wideman and Engelland all signed for a couple more years and Glencross's future uncertain, I fear this may take a long time to materialise:

Gaudreau Monahan Hudler
Ferland Bennett Poirier
Granlund Backlund Colborne
Bouma Arnold Jooris
Reinhart/Byron

Giordano Brodie
Russell Wotherspoon
Culkin Wideman
Sieloff/Kulak

Hiller
Ramo

I think there's a good balance of size and skill through that lineup.

Ideally Klimchuk, Baertschi & Jankowski will someday reach an NHL level, but as of now all of those forwards listed are ahead of them. Carroll & Smith are probably a couple of seasons away.

I'm not at all sold on Ortio. If he could develop some consistency he could be a world-beater. Consistency is the most difficult trait to develop, so to me he is far from a sure thing. Gillies is another unknown quantity, and it's safe to say he has a few seasons in the AHL ahead of him. With that in mind it's important to keep hold of both Hiller and Ramo.

The depth at forward is really good. Really, REALLY good. We could afford to trade 2 or 3 of them for help on defence.

[David Struch]

Gaudreau – Bennett - Poirier
Granlund - Monahan – Klimchuk
Baertschi – Jankowski – Jooris
Ferland - Arnold – Smith

Giordano - Brodie
Russell- Wotherspoon
Culkin - Sieloff

Gillies
McDonald

[Mony]

Here's the one I made a few months ago. IMO we need to draft/acquire the top line RW, top pairing D to replace Gio in a few years, and a few more D, most importantly.

Gaudreau-Bennett-x
x-Monahan-Poirier
Baertschi-Backlund-Colborne
Ferland-Bouma-Smith/Carroll/Jooris

Brodie-Giordano
Russell-Wotherspoon
x-x

Ramo
Ortio/Gillies

This is after Wideman/Byron/Hudler/Raymond etc all leave.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I view the future team based on who is stepping up and making a name for themselves by embracing the team philosophy and playing Flames hockey. There are some core pieces (Gaudreau, Bennett, Monahan and Brodie) and there are some excellent support pieces (Colborne, Ferland and Granlund). We also have a number of guys that are still developing but showing promise (Poirier, Arnold, Jankowski, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Culkin, Hickey, Gilmour, Gillies, MacDonald, etc.). We also have some interesting pieces that are nice role players and filler (Jooris, Bouma, Hanowski, and Agostino). How this all plays out is going to be interesting. I think it is easier to work from the other end of the spectrum and figure out who is most likely to move on in the short term and what the team will look like in the fall out.

I'm going to take the unpopular route and identify players I don't see being around in two years first. Naturally you're going to see a lot of the vets move on. Stajan will be moved sooner than later. I think Backlund also has an expiration date and it is coming up quicker than people realize. I don't see Bollig sticking around for more than another season and the same goes for McGrattan. As great a leader as Hudler has been I'm sure he'll want to chase another shot at the cup before the Flames are ready for that challenge. Wideman, Russell and Engelland will all likely have new addresses in the next 18 months. We will have a massive rollover in goaltending with both Ramo and Hiller being gone within 18 months as well. In the prospect ranks I think you've seen the last of Baertschi. Ortio may not have much of a shelf life left either. The wild card on the team is Giordano. What does he want to do and will the Flames invest in him long term or take advantage of his current status and sell high for a bounty of future players. This team will see a lot of youth injected into the ranks, mostly because they will have plenty of gaps to fill. Having said that I think this is how the team will shake out.

Gaudreau-Bennett-Poirier

This is a first line made for the new NHL. Speed, speed and more speed, with enough tenacity and finish to give teams fits in trying to cover it. This is an improved version of the Patterson-Gilmour-Mullen line from the championship Flames team.

Ferland-Monahan-Granlund

One of the skilled LW will have to shift over to the right side, and I think Granlund is the guy to make that switch. I think he's the most versatile forward we have and could be successful in any position he plays. This is good because I think this gives the Flames a very dangerous and hard to play against 2nd line. This is the recreation of the Roberts-Nieuwendyk-Loob line with maybe a little less finish, but way better in the two way game. This is the line I think teams will have difficulty defending against and will lead the Flames in puck possession and time in the offensive zone.

Klimchuk-Jankowski-Smith

Jankowski has really blossomed as a two way player in Providence. So much so he reminds me of a modern day Joel Otto. No, he's not as physically dominating as the former Flame, but he plays such a good defensive game that I think he's destined for that role. The bonus is that he comes with a great skill package that you can still use with some other players that can score. Klimchuk and Smith seem like perfect line mates to compliment the Big Jankowski. If Janko is Otto, then Smith has the perfect skill set to be his Jim Peplinksi, and Klimchuk to be his Mark Hunter. I see these guys as a tough line to play against and still be able to score. I also see Jankowski and Klimchuk as two of our top penalty killers.

Agostino-Arnold-Harrison

This was the toughest line, but easiest, line to put together. I just love the character of each player and I think they perfectly compliment each other's style of play. All three have a non-stop motor and are hard to play against. Agostino and Arnold come with championship pedigree so I see them having what it takes to make and stick in the NHL. Harrison is one of those guys that every time I see him I just get a feeling that he'll be a NHL player and a major team guy on a championship squad. He's my real darkhorse to make an impact out of no where, kind of like Jooris. I see Arnold as the Carey Wilson of the new Flames, Agostino as the Jiri Hrdina and Harrison as the new Paul Ranheim. I see this as the future shutdown line and the three final pieces to the PK up front.

13th forward - Austin Carroll. Big, versatile and not afraid to get his nose dirty.

Brodie-Culkin

I think this is going to be the pairing of the future. Culkin's game has really come along and he seems like a nice complimentary piece to Brodie. Hickey could also jump into this slot, but I think he's best served anchoring the next pair. I see Brodie being the Gary Suter but I haven't figured out the Al Macinnis.

Hickey-Wotherspoon

A nice blend of skill and physicality. What is most important is that this pairing doesn't give up much as far as skating and puck moving ability goes, but can still be solid in their own zone. I see Wotherspoon as a Rob Ramage type defenseman and Hickey being another Gary Suter, which is a terrible problem to have.

Sieloff-Rafikov

Every team needs a pairing with some #### disturbers on it. This is the pair for the future. It is hard to say whether they will play together, or be distributed to different pairings, but I think these two have potential to make life interesting for forwards coming across the blueline. Could one of these guys be our Brad McCrimmon or Jamie Macoun? I think so.

7th defenseman - Adam Ollas-Mattson. Don't know why, but the more I read about this guy the more I think he might be a player.

Gillies-MacDonald

I don't know which of these two are going to step up and grab the mantle of the starter, but this will be the tandem of the future. Both appear to have an unflappable nature and have the size to be NHL goaltenders. I think Gillies may be the star between the pipes, but it is hard to make the call until you see them facing NHL shooters.

That's the way I see the team in the future. Of course, this all goes out the window with the next draft and the next group of flavors of the month enter the organization. But hey, it's fun to go through this exercise all the same.