Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If there is no civic value to sports franchises, why is Nenchi holding up the Grey Cup(s)?

No for sure, good point.

Tomorrow I'll just go write the City a cheque and instruct them to use it towards the new Flames arena so that super rich people that can afford more luxury boxes with their large quantities of disposable income while I remain on my couch, unable to afford the newly increased price of a ticket.

It's worth the money to me, because I once saw Nenshi on TV hold the Grey Cup.

Makes sense.

[heep223]

This debate has many shades of grey. Anyone taking either extreme view IMO has blinders on.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Julio

From page 168 of the Official Olympic report, accessible here: http://library.la84.org/6oic/Officia...orw1988pt1.pdf

Funding came from the three levels of government and OCO '88...city and province 1/3 each, feds and OCO combined for the third 1/3.

Thanks for this. I read an article where the city didn't come up with their share and the amount was covered by the feds and provincial government, but I can't find it right now so I will defer to your article and back off on my assessment.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by heep223

This debate has many shades of grey. Anyone taking either extreme view IMO has blinders on.

At least 50..

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If there is no civic value to sports franchises, why is Nenchi holding up the Grey Cup(s)?

I would like to see a Bronze Statue of Nenshi proudly hoisting the Grey Cup (after 2014 Victory) outside the new Hockey/Football Complex funded by Tax Payers.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Thanks for this. I read an article where the city didn't come up with their share and the amount was covered by the feds and provincial government, but I can't find it right now so I will defer to your article and back off on my assessment.

According to this article in the Calgary Herald the city's share was $14.3 million cash and land valued at $23.5 million.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...3625%2C3152765

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

No for sure, good point.

Tomorrow I'll just go write the City a cheque and instruct them to use it towards the new Flames arena so that super rich people that can afford more luxury boxes with their large quantities of disposable income while I remain on my couch, unable to afford the newly increased price of a ticket.

It's worth the money to me, because I once saw Nenshi on TV hold the Grey Cup.

Makes sense.

Not sure your post makes much sense but carry on.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jammies

You're assembling a mighty straw man - nobody is claiming there isn't civic value to a major league sports franchise, the question is if that "civic value" is worth tens or hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, especially when there is little or no chance of that "civic value" disappearing without it.

No I wasn't assembling a straw man, I was replying to posters who made an extreme (and inaccurate) claim. You however, are creating a straw man by attempting to impose parameters on this discussion that don't yet exist.

Do you think the Flames will relocate if they don't get a new arena? If not, what exactly is the down-side of not subsidizing that arena? And not nebulous drawbacks like "not having a world-class facility" or "inability for the team to access new sources of revenue" that, frankly, shouldn't matter to the City when there are plenty of concrete problems that their money should be spent on first.

Speculate for me - what do you think will happen if the City flat-out refuses to give the Flames anything other than the requisite permits and redesign of the roads nearby? Mass revolts in the streets? Children going without soup for lunch? Giant alien motherships in the sky? Or, might the Flames be forced to finance the arena WITH BONDS ON A 25 YEAR TERM?!?!? The horror!

Um, no.

[Gaudfather]

If you are undergoing a +1 billion dollar development - which will be a landmark location for both the city and province - then of course the developers will seek out whatever financial assistance or government support is available to them.

This happens all the time and not just for professional sport facilities - check any recent automotive plant investment in Ontario.

Calgary Sports and Entertainment (CSE) will seek out whatever assistance they can source from municipal, provincial and federal coffers. I suspect they will find less assistance from all levels of government than they hoped for - but the project will proceed anyway.

City of Calgary may not contribute much cash, but zoning for a few condos and/or hotels adjacent to the site can hold a lot of value for CSE.

A project that is primarily privately financed is more often than not more successful than one greased with govt funds (memories of the Big O anyone) and yet still be something that all Calgarians can be rightfully proud of.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

If you are undergoing a +1 billion dollar development - which will be a landmark location for both the city and province - then of course the developers will seek out whatever financial assistance or government support is available to them.

This happens all the time and not just for professional sport facilities - check any recent automotive plant investment in Ontario.

Calgary Sports and Entertainment (CSE) will seek out whatever assistance they can source from municipal, provincial and federal coffers. I suspect they will find less assistance from all levels of government than they hoped for - but the project will proceed anyway.

City of Calgary may not contribute much cash, but zoning for a few condos and/or hotels adjacent to the site can hold a lot of value for CSE.

A project that is primarily privately financed is more often than not more successful than one greased with govt funds (memories of the Big O anyone) and yet still be something that all Calgarians can be rightfully proud of.

So well said!
And a far as stadiums go, AT&T Park is held by many as the gold standard, the last MLB Park built entirely with public funds (and the only one since Dodger Stadium in 1962). However, the Giants did receive 90 million in tax abatements and infrastructure upgrades from the city, as well as a 66 year lease on 12.5 acres of prime city owned land at 1.2 million a year.
There does not need to be and should not be a dollar of city money into the building itself, but contributions can and should come in other ways, imo.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If there is no civic value to sports franchises, why is Nenchi holding up the Grey Cup(s)?

Because there are cameras pointed at the Grey Cup, and Nenshi, like every politician who ever lived, is a publicity hound. If somebody is taking a picture, he wants to be in it.

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Because there are cameras pointed at the Grey Cup, and Nenshi, like every politician who ever lived, is a publicity hound. If somebody is taking a picture, he wants to be in it.

Or he is a giant fan of the Stampeders and leveraged who he knows to be part of the celebration of his favorite team winning the Cup. Just like any of us would do if the Flames won lord stanley.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by surferguy

Or he is a giant fan of the Stampeders and leveraged who he knows to be part of the celebration of his favorite team winning the Cup. Just like any of us would do if the Flames won lord stanley.

I vote for Jay Random's position over that of surferguy.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Because there are cameras pointed at the Grey Cup, and Nenshi, like every politician who ever lived, is a publicity hound. If somebody is taking a picture, he wants to be in it.

Well obviously a self-promoter like Nenshi is never going to forego an opportunity to get his mug in national news print but still the original point is a valid one.

[GioforPM]

A self promoting local politician? That's unpossible.

[DiracSpike]

Are we really going to crack on Nenshi for being there and holding the grey cup? He's the mayor of the city and the stampeders represent this city, I'd almost expect him to be there. He was probably the 100th person to touch it anyways, if he was onstage right beside huff flashing his goofy grin then we'd have a problem.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I vote for Jay Random's position over that of surferguy.

Can I choose a middle option, or do I have to side with either extreme?

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Are we really going to crack on Nenshi for being there and holding the grey cup? He's the mayor of the city and the stampeders represent this city, I'd almost expect him to be there. He was probably the 100th person to touch it anyways, if he was onstage right beside huff flashing his goofy grin then we'd have a problem.

Do they represent the city, or the greedy billionaire owners who want a new stadium? If you read Nenshi's comments, or his chief of staffs comments, the Flames owners (and Stamps/Roughnecks/Hitmen/Flames Foundation for Kids Sports, etc.) don't deserve money from public funds. So in my twisted thinking, then the Flames owners don't need to have politicians involved in anything as the teams don't represent the City.

[#-3]

Of course Nenshi is not a stamps fan, I'd be willing to bet the guy doesn't know how many points you get for a field goal.

But of course he is gonna show up and support what essentially equates to a civic pride even, he's the mayor.

Yes Nenshi is taking a absolute hard line. I don't know what the final result will be, but this article and the statements from the city are obvious posturing. In the same way the Flames are posturing when they say they are still considering 3 or 4 locations 5 years into the inquiry phase of this project they know where they want to go.

The unfortunate result of all of this posturing is us laymen might not know what the final result will be until after construction has already started.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Are we really going to crack on Nenshi for being there and holding the grey cup? He's the mayor of the city and the stampeders represent this city, I'd almost expect him to be there. He was probably the 100th person to touch it anyways, if he was onstage right beside huff flashing his goofy grin then we'd have a problem.

One has to wonder if taxpayers funded his trip to Vancouver or he actually used his own money. My guess is that the city forked over the money.