Dramatic changes to the World Cup?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can you post an article about the financial impact (or lack of), genuine interest.

Perhaps you are correct. If so then that is a sad thing IMO.


I wonder if the NHL is looking at Europe as a viable expansion.

No actual dollar figures, unfortunately, but some of the general complaints are mentioned here:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...d-gary-bettman

I do recall a lot of talk prior to the Sochi agreement being reached by insiders who were being fed tidbits from the owners that they haven't realized much, if any, financial benefit. Several teams felt it actually hurt their business by shutting down for 2-3 weeks in a prime part of the season.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Hmm, that's fair. But it would be quite interesting to have the no chance countries submit their best talent to play with great talent so they can be evaluated?

How about the Major 6 "country categories", 25% of the team must be from a different continent?

I think the strongest attachments will obviously be the US and Canada. There's no need to dilute other countries talent pools to feed these two. They'll be fine on their own.

It also allows an attachment like Canada has to the European side in the Ryder Cup. There's no country there, just a continent. A continental team doesn't really have much nationalistic type emotion. Most of the emotional attachment is the "underdog" or anti American sentiment

[Gaudfather]

Its only the six country teams that would be in the hunt anyway - the idea of all-star teams is just pandering to the remaining countries to try and drive better ratings and tv money!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

The revenues for Champions League soccer are astronomical. If hockey could do even 5% of that business, it is still enormous.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...d=2117799.html

The 32 teams that competed in the UEFA Champions League shared €904m in payments from UEFA in 2013/14, matching the record outlay from the previous season.

Sure, but that is over 125 games and a great many stops and starts to the regular club season to fit it in.

Five percent of that business is only about €45m, or US$56m.

There is zero chance the NHL would view that as anything but harmful to its business, particularly since it would only get a small percentage of that small pie. And it would have to halt its season at times to fit it in. AND it would have to shorten the season to fit it in. And on top of that, only the qualifying teams would get the revenue, but everybody in the NHL would have to pay as a result of any increase in the salary cap and floor.

The NHL would have to realize several hundred million dollars in revenue out of such a format before it would even consider it.

[#-3]

Add me in, as all for the Euro Team. I think then you are leaving fewer players out who belong their, and creating more of a competitive balance. And it Might actually grow the Game in places like Germany or France, if they can get their own players on a team that is actually competitive in an international event.

I don't really like the young stars team the Young Stars team. If they are just looking to make it more competitive, why not have a Canada East & Canada West Team. You would think the Young Stars team would usually be at least 60 - 70 % Canadian away if they can set politics aside, if not they probably don't be nearly competitive enough. Hopefully one day they can draw the 8th team from the rest of the world, and pluck one off players from obscure southern locations and Asia, but that is a long way off.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Stop trying to make a hockey world cup happen. It's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

It's going to happen just like the other gimmicky, similarly named tournaments happened. It won't be meaningful or more than a curious footnote when it happens this time, only to disappear for another few years or CBAs.

The potential withdrawal from the Olympics will be dumb, as the Olympics have more built in prestige and significance than anything the NHL and IIHF will be able to manufacture for decades.

Originally Posted by Weitz

What happens when people say no to playing for some BS all-star team?

Or when players on the other teams say no because they want to enjoy their summer off? Which they won't be able to do with this in September.

I feel like I'm reading this in a bizarro world where there weren't seven previous Canada Cups and World Cups full of elite, exciting hockey that players were honored to play in and fans went nuts over.

[DJones]

Don't mind the all-stars idea for an 8th team.

The 7th team though should be a rotating country. Whoever has been doing the best in the years leading up to it. Would give the remaining All-Star countries a hope of graduating to the big club so to speak.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by troutman

The revenues for Champions League soccer are astronomical. If hockey could do even 5% of that business, it is still enormous.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...d=2117799.html

The 32 teams that competed in the UEFA Champions League shared €904m in payments from UEFA in 2013/14, matching the record outlay from the previous season.

The NHL season and playoffs are already too long. Adding in extra games in the summer for the NHL club or clubs that qualify for the Champions League would shorten the off season to almost nothing, putting those teams at a serious disadvantage for the next season.

Last year's Finals ended on June 13, after game 5. If it had gone to game 7, you'd be looking at June 18 or 19. How do you fit a Champions League in before the July 1 free agency deadline? And how to pending free agents feel about risking injury with even more, relatively insignificant, games after the playoffs are done? Even non-free agents would balk at more hockey, as most end the playoffs banged up.

Yes, you could shorten the regular season, but shortening the regular season significantly, and the loss of revenue from that, would not be made up from a Champions League, with far fewer games.

Finally, unlike soccer, where you have top talent spread throughout the different leagues in the world, the vast majority of the professional hockey talent is in the NHL. There's no reason to expect any European club teams to compete with the top NHL teams, making a hockey Champions League an uninteresting draw for most fans in North America, driving down profits.

[powderjunkie]

I like the mixed bag Euro team, but would want the 8th team to be Canada B.


More sensible would be to have a short play-in tourney. Two 3 team pools play a quick round robin with teams 7-12 in IIHF rankings:

Slovakia
Latvia
Austria or Slovenia

Switzerland
2 of France, Germany, Norway

Winners of pools advance to big tourney. It would be a nice little advantage for those teams as they would have had 3 games to gel.

Bottom 2 finishers in big tourney are relegated to play in round next time...

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I feel like I'm reading this in a bizarro world where there weren't seven previous Canada Cups and World Cups full of elite, exciting hockey that players were honored to play in and fans went nuts over.

The Canada Cup was big coming off the Summit Series and Canada vs. Russia novelty during the Cold War. Things have changed in the almost 40 years since it was introduced, and in the 20 years since it was held. NHL players can compete in the Olympics and World Championships now, for example. But yes, Alan Eagleson's embezzlement scheme sure was romantic.

The World Cups that followed the Canada Cups were rendered meaningless trivia when Olympic participation was allowed starting in 1998. Especially 2004, which was a last chance to fill the war chests prior to the work stoppage.

[Calgary4LIfe]

One area of potential concern is how the "rest of the best" team gets selected. Will be interesting to see how they do it. Will every country automatically get a spot like back in the NHL All-Star days, and the rest of the spots being selected more on merit? Who will do the selecting?

I can see a potential problem coming up - bribes. Apparently, lots of hockey players in some poor countries often have to bribe their way onto lines and playing time, etc. - at least if you believe the words of Mike Danton:

http://www.mikedanton22.com/kazakhstan-true-story-2/

I can imagine some poor eastern European teams may have the same issues. "Want to be on that team and have a chance to showcase yourself to NHL teams and maybe become a hero? Give me $10,000!". Hopefully the selection to those teams have a few safeguards. Maybe I am just being paranoid, but would hate to see a scandal.

[waner]

I am not really sure what the Czechs have done to get the 6th spot automatically. They have been pretty poor for awhile and the team they sent to the Olympics was pretty terrible. It really is only a big 5 right now.

I know 6 teams isn't ideal for a tournament set up but maybe a round robin with two pools then top 2 from each go to semi's and finals. Maybe 2 games against each team in the round robin to mitigate against a fluke upset and because you have the ability to play that many games with only 6 teams.

For the 6th team maybe the best of the 2nd tier teams (Czech, Slovakia, Switzerland) or a combination of all 3 or those 3 plus any other countries.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

One area of potential concern is how the "rest of the best" team gets selected. Will be interesting to see how they do it. Will every country automatically get a spot like back in the NHL All-Star days, and the rest of the spots being selected more on merit? Who will do the selecting?

I can see a potential problem coming up - bribes. Apparently, lots of hockey players in some poor countries often have to bribe their way onto lines and playing time, etc. - at least if you believe the words of Mike Danton:

http://www.mikedanton22.com/kazakhstan-true-story-2/

I can imagine some poor eastern European teams may have the same issues. "Want to be on that team and have a chance to showcase yourself to NHL teams and maybe become a hero? Give me $10,000!". Hopefully the selection to those teams have a few safeguards. Maybe I am just being paranoid, but would hate to see a scandal.

I was thinking the same thing. It's almost like you would need a coaching and selection staff from a neutral country.

[waner]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

One area of potential concern is how the "rest of the best" team gets selected. Will be interesting to see how they do it. Will every country automatically get a spot like back in the NHL All-Star days, and the rest of the spots being selected more on merit? Who will do the selecting?

I can see a potential problem coming up - bribes. Apparently, lots of hockey players in some poor countries often have to bribe their way onto lines and playing time, etc. - at least if you believe the words of Mike Danton:

http://www.mikedanton22.com/kazakhstan-true-story-2/

I can imagine some poor eastern European teams may have the same issues. "Want to be on that team and have a chance to showcase yourself to NHL teams and maybe become a hero? Give me $10,000!". Hopefully the selection to those teams have a few safeguards. Maybe I am just being paranoid, but would hate to see a scandal.

If it is an NHL/NHLPA run tournament they could run the team and appoint GM's and coaches much like Hockey Canada does to run the team and make selections. Hard to imagine that bribes would come into to play then.

[Red Menace]

A play in for the final 2-3 sots is ideal, but remember they said they do not have time to organize one for 2016...and again this is not an IIHF tournament...they want to showcase NHL players...

[Fire]

Just leave it country vs country. None of this best of the rest and young stars crap. A big part of why players play in this tournament is because of nationalistic pride. Straying from that is not a good idea.

Go with:

1. Canada
2. United States
3. Sweden
4. Russia
5. Finland
6. Switzerland
7. Slovak Republic
8. Czech Republic

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Mike F

The NHL season and playoffs are already too long. Adding in extra games in the summer for the NHL club or clubs that qualify for the Champions League would shorten the off season to almost nothing, putting those teams at a serious disadvantage for the next season.

Last year's Finals ended on June 13, after game 5. If it had gone to game 7, you'd be looking at June 18 or 19. How do you fit a Champions League in before the July 1 free agency deadline? And how to pending free agents feel about risking injury with even more, relatively insignificant, games after the playoffs are done? Even non-free agents would balk at more hockey, as most end the playoffs banged up.

Yes, you could shorten the regular season, but shortening the regular season significantly, and the loss of revenue from that, would not be made up from a Champions League, with far fewer games.

Finally, unlike soccer, where you have top talent spread throughout the different leagues in the world, the vast majority of the professional hockey talent is in the NHL. There's no reason to expect any European club teams to compete with the top NHL teams, making a hockey Champions League an uninteresting draw for most fans in North America, driving down profits.

This has been discussed in other threads, and I think it is a long way off.

How it could work - 6 best teams from the NHL in September tournament vs 6 best teams from Europe (would replace training camp for NHL teams). I agree the NHL will be reluctant to shorthen the regular season, but they might be willing if there was a prospect of big Euro revenues.

I'm not sure I agree talent is spread evenly across UEFA. Since 1996 only one team not from Spain, Italy, Germany or England has won it. And you see the same dozen teams over and over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._League_finals

[Resolute 14]

Honestly, that is worse than a World Cup would be.

[waner]

I am not sure why there is a desire for a Champions league in hockey. Champions league in soccer works because the top teams/players in Europe are spread across 4-5 (EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga, PSG maybe Portugal every so often) so seeing those teams compete is interesting because they are on similar levels and you get to see who the best team is.

For Hockey the NHL is head and shoulders above every other team. The worst NHL team is much better than the best team in Europe. Having a tournament in which the NHL teams don't give a crap and get nothing out of winning seems like a pointless exercise.

Why would the NHL players do anything other than try to avoid getting hurt?

If HC Davos won would anyone really think they were a better team than the LA Kings?

[Weitz]

So what happens when the KHL doesn't send any players since its in their season?