Should the Flames trade up or trade down once they get healthy?

[GioforPM]

I'm not in a keep Seto camp. But I think unless you have to make room, he's fine to sit in the press box. I think he should sit for at least a few games and have a look at the game from upstairs.

If you don't keep him, I'm betting at his price he gets picked up on waivers as a warm body.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think your using this stat wrong. You're basically saying Seto has been unlucky

Well, he has had one really bad linemate [runs and hides].

[Gaudfather]

If a team is not scoring as much when you are on the ice you will have a lower shooting % and if a team is giving up goals when you are on the ice you will have a lower save % meaning the aggregate number (PDO) will be lower as well.

What is interesting is that Seto's numbers are so much worse than the rest of the team (except for Sven - but he has only played 4 games).

[Circa89]

Tbh I am kind of worried of Treliving's first trade. His off season eye for talent has left a little to be desired?

SETo= 14th forward, failed experiment.
Bollig has been a healthy scratch and meh at best.
Engellend is the most expensive 6th-7th dman in the league.
Diaz on the PTO was a no harm no foul but less than brilliant.

Hiller has been spectacular, exceeding all expectations but feel as though he was the most obvious choice for free agent net minders.

Outside of Hiller his acquisitions have been less than spectacular.

[Vinny01]

What about Raymond? I think he looked very good before the injury

[Circa89]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What about Raymond? I think he looked very good before the injury

I knew I was going to forget an obvious one. Yes, Raymond in his small sample size was a good pick up and probably Treliving's biggest move to "replace" cammellari.

I'm still very nervous about his first big trade.

[Vinny01]

I think with Burke having input on trades there is little reason to worry. The Flames have cap space and assets I think Treliving is poised to win his first big trade

[Anar]

I believe trading should be out of the question right now. The Flames are playing exceptionally well and drastic transition will plummet their upbeat performance. If trading should become necessary then to trade one player should be okay - multiple players will ruin the collaborative team spirit.

- Curtis Glencross and David Jones are good contributions to the team.

[Gaudfather]

The one area where Treliving should continue to do work is on our D - Diaz, Smid, Engelland, even Wideman are all expendable pieces if a better long term fit can be found.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Circa89

Tbh I am kind of worried of Treliving's first trade. His off season eye for talent has left a little to be desired?

SETo= 14th forward, failed experiment.
Bollig has been a healthy scratch and meh at best.
Engellend is the most expensive 6th-7th dman in the league.
Diaz on the PTO was a no harm no foul but less than brilliant.

Hiller has been spectacular, exceeding all expectations but feel as though he was the most obvious choice for free agent net minders.

Outside of Hiller his acquisitions have been less than spectacular.

Fine to be nervous, but I think you are potentially thinking Treliving was expecting more from his off season acquistions then he's getting, which I bet is not the case.

England has been completely as advertised, and I'd wager is filling the role exactly as he would have expected. I'm also sure that Treliving know's he overpaid, but was likely the requirement to land a veteran D-man in the Flames situation, and he was aware the Flames could afford to overpay and for how long they could.

Bollig has done exactly what he was meant to. Keep up the truculence when needed and play a more effective shift than McGratton can.

Diaz was a PTO, and has made the team as a 7th D-man. Why would you think Treliving was expecting more. Diaz is here to plug holes for short term injuries and ride the pine so that a younger player doesn't have to and can get more ice time down on the farm. I'd wager Diaz is filling the role exactly as he envisioned.

Seto, I'm also willing to bet Treliving realized it was a long shot that he'd turn it around, I doubt he was banking on it. Seto was here to create competition for the young guys, and man did it work, they are all outplaying him. Seto turning it around would have been nothing more than the most optimistic upside, not something Treliving likely was banking on when he signed him.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by waner

I think with Russell, Gio and Brodie the Flames have plenty of offense from their defense so the loss of Wideman wouldn't be that big of a deal and Diaz isn't that bad of an offensive guy himself. I personally would prefer to have Wotherspoon in that second pairing than Diaz. It would be a big step up for him but I am fine if he has some slip ups this season as wins/losses not a big deal for me as much as getting an assessment on young guys like Wotherspoon is.

I agree Glencross of 3 years ago is more valuable than Glencross now but he isn't that same guy and doesn't have that same value. Now he has consistency/inury concerns that makes me think teams may not want to take the risk on him if he had 2 more years left on his deal. Now they get a guy with top 6 ability that can also contribute a gritty, play-off style game. They can see if he clicks with their guys and then decide if they want to offer him a long term deal. Plus there is always the issue with Glencross that with a long term deal he doesn't want to leave, maybe he is willing to waive his NTC for the last 3 months of the season.

You still need a partner with Russell who can log on more minutes otherwise we will the Butler scenario over again. I am happy with our top 4 Ds. They can play lots of minutes and are mobile who can help offensively. The reason for the Flames success this early season is because their D can join the rush that confuses the opponent's defense. When Flames signed Wideman, we all know his defense is a suspect but he can play offensively. I don't think that change so I don't understand why suddenly everybody wants to trade the guy. None of Smid, Engelland, Diaz, Wotherspoon or Sieloff can log the same minutes as Wideman and be effective. Look at Chris Butler last few seasons, he played more minutes than he should and he ends up having a brain-farts most of the time.

[waner]

Originally Posted by OzSome

You still need a partner with Russell who can log on more minutes otherwise we will the Butler scenario over again. I am happy with our top 4 Ds. They can play lots of minutes and are mobile who can help offensively. The reason for the Flames success this early season is because their D can join the rush that confuses the opponent's defense. When Flames signed Wideman, we all know his defense is a suspect but he can play offensively. I don't think that change so I don't understand why suddenly everybody wants to trade the guy. None of Smid, Engelland, Diaz, Wotherspoon or Sieloff can log the same minutes as Wideman and be effective. Look at Chris Butler last few seasons, he played more minutes than he should and he ends up having a brain-farts most of the time.

I don't see Wideman as being effective playing the minutes he is, he has been a disaster in his own end. Wideman is Chris Butler with more offensive ability.

And I didn't want them to sign Wideman and didn't like the signing at the time so for me nothing has changed.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Circa89

I knew I was going to forget an obvious one. Yes, Raymond in his small sample size was a good pick up and probably Treliving's biggest move to "replace" cammellari.

I'm still very nervous about his first big trade.

So Raymond is a small sample size while the "bad" moves aren't?

No one expected much from Seto and Diaz (thus the PTO and late off-season signing). If they worked out great, if not you waive them and cut your losses.

Engelland was expected to be a 3rd pair dman, hes had some decent moments and some bad. They overpaid to keep the term low. In the long-term he's here for cap and to provide some leadership.

Bollig was a waste.

[Lanny_McDonald]

The Flames should be looking to improve the blue line long term. That should mean trying to pry a young defense man with top four potential out of another team looking to make some noise. I'd target Reinhart or Pulock on the Islanders and be prepared to move Glencross and Wideman to get him. If we have to move a prospect up front to make it happen, so be it. We need another young guy on the blue line that is ready to step in. Wotherspoon is probably the best we have, but I think we need three or four guys that can step in, especially if we want to move veterans.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by New Era

The Flames should be looking to improve the blue line long term. That should mean trying to pry a young defense man with top four potential out of another team looking to make some noise. I'd target Reinhart or Pulock on the Islanders and be prepared to move Glencross and Wideman to get him. If we have to move a prospect up front to make it happen, so be it. We need another young guy on the blue line that is ready to step in. Wotherspoon is probably the best we have, but I think we need three or four guys that can step in, especially if we want to move veterans.

The guy I would like to see as a partner for Kris Russell, if we could swing it, is Ryan Ellis - has a RHS, cap friendly contract, and the preds have good depth in their D-men. One can dream.

[thymebalm]

The only place the roster needs an obvious upgrade is the 5-6 d pairing.

Surplus has to be young wingers.

No internal fix available. Wotherspoon, Sieloff, Culkin,
Kulak are all too green to make a difference this year.

Unfortunately every team in the league is looking for defenders.

You trade if it's a perfect fit. Otherwise you hope for those aforementioned grapes on the vine to ripen by next season.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Gosh, it's so nice to see how things have turned around for this organization. For years, they've lacked prospects coming up through the system and they're now literally looking at being forced to trade roster players to make room for kids who are showing they are ready.

With Raymond and Colborne on their way back and Jones out yet again, I'm guessing the Flames send Reinhart down first, which leaves a line up of:

Curtis Glencross – Sean Monahan – Mason Raymond
Johnny Gaudreau – Markus Granlund – Jiri Hudler
Sven Baertschi – Josh Jooris – Paul Byron
Brandon Bollig – Lance Bouma - Joe Colborne

Then, when Setoguchi gets back, they'll have to re-evaluate and see if Baertschi's been able to show enough consistently to force the Flames to cut their experiment with Setoguchi and send the vet down. If Baertschi doesn't make his mark, he goes down.

EDIT: Shoot, forgot about Backlund and Ferland. Man, this team is deep.

Backlund's return probably means Granlund goes down (don't think you can send Jooris down anymore) and Ferland will be in the three-way battle with Setoguchi and Baertschi for the one spot available.

Treliving will probably start putting out feelers on interest in Glencross soon, assuming he hasn't already, and when that move is made, opens up an additional spot for one of the kids.

If someone from the defence goes down with an injury, it'll be interesting to see how well Wotherspoon performs on his call up. If he can do what guys like Jooris and Granlund have done, it'll give the Flames a lot more confidence to move a guy like Smid for a pick, etc.

[TheDebaser]

At this point the Flames have so much depth that they'll need to make a move from quantity to quality eventually. That's just how it has to be. I'm fine with that as long as management keeps to a couple rules.

1) Don't rush anything. It's fine to send players to the minors for a while to wait for a good deal to present itself.

2) Target young players with potential. (duh)

3) Only target players who will contribute to the positive culture. Kessel and Phaneuf type personalities aren't the kind of guys to build around.

4) Two way players with speed and hockey IQ, pay the premium if you can get size too.

Our drafting has gotten us to the point where we can start acquiring real talent through trades. Doing well in the trade market over the next 2 years will be the difference between this squad being a mediocre team or a stanley cup contender. Really exciting time to be a flames fan.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

The guy I would like to see as a partner for Kris Russell, if we could swing it, is Ryan Ellis - has a RHS, cap friendly contract, and the preds have good depth in their D-men. One can dream.

Not a chance. You can only have so many small players in the lineup, especially on the blue line. Another sub 6'0 200 pound defender is a recipe for disaster. Ellis is a PP specialist and we really don't need that at all. Are you going to take PP time away from Giordano, Brodie, Wideman or Russell? I also don't see Ellis helping this team against the west coast clubs. We need some size on the blue line to help counter the bulk of those west coast teams. Ellis doesn't help us in any way.

[Roof-Daddy]

I really wonder how a guy like Tyler Myers would fare playing for Hartley and crew in this system they run. I tend to think he'd excel here and how nice would it be to book end Russell on the second pairing with 6'8 240 pound behemoth like Myers?

Providing he did excel here, of course.....