Darren Haynes interview with Baertschi ...

[killer_carlson]

I think this is a great interview and so refreshing to hear an athlete answer honestly with good explanations.

People who criticize him want him to be a robot who does not deviate from the standard, stock answers.

This is great and I hope he keeps it up. He reminds me of Backlund a few years ago. Backlund was given more opportunity due to lack of depth at the time, but Sven will get through it.

My only concern is that I hope he does it here, but can see if the Flames aren't providing that opportunity that he will do so elsewhere.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Brendan Shinnimin was an overager and almost two years older than Sven during the 11-12 season.

The list of players to put up two points per game after their draft year is miniscule.

At the NHL level, WHL points are moot anyway. My point was it doesn't always translate and a fair number of average guys did very well points wise in junior.

I think the focus is on what the guy can do here. And if he's not doing well - is it going to change and how? There're lots of options and outcomes, most of which are good for him. Lots of it is up to him.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I only have one account, never had one before.

It was just a joke BTW. Not sarcasm towards patience. I fully agere with being patient. I find that there are those who boost Sven who are not. Demanding a call up every time a Flame was injured, when he was still underperforming in Add, demanding top 6 minutes when he has a good game. Patience includes not forcing him into a situation he can't handle yet. Top 6 minutes, for example, means top 6 opponents. Let's ease him into that, like with Monahan last year to this year.

As someone who doesn't particularly care if Sven makes it or not, while you might "agere" with patience, I can tell you with absolute certainty that not only are you grossly exaggerating when you use the term "demand," but your vision of these "boosters" seems invented solely to fuel your own argument.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

As someone who doesn't particularly care if Sven makes it or not, while you might "agere" with patience, I can tell you with absolute certainty that not only are you grossly exaggerating when you use the term "demand," but your vision of these "boosters" seems invented solely to fuel your own argument.

As a Flames fan why wouldn't you care if he makes it or not?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think this is a great interview and so refreshing to hear an athlete answer honestly with good explanations.

People who criticize him want him to be a robot who does not deviate from the standard, stock answers.

This is great and I hope he keeps it up. He reminds me of Backlund a few years ago. Backlund was given more opportunity due to lack of depth at the time, but Sven will get through it.

My only concern is that I hope he does it here, but can see if the Flames aren't providing that opportunity that he will do so elsewhere.

I don't have an issue with him being honest in his interviews. Thing is - I believe him when he says his confidence is an issue. The same people who say "he's not giving cliche answers" then say "don't look at what he says too closely".

Lots of kids have confidence issues. I agree with that. Let's see how he handles it. The real debate is how it should be addressed. Does he need a psychologist? I think that is reading way too much into it. Does he need to be sent down to dominate the AHL? Maybe but that has a confidence issue as well if he sees it as a personal failure (and moreso if he doesn't do well immediately down there). Is it to give him top 6 minutes? Maybe, but there's games to win as well. you can't put him with Monahan because of who Monahan plays against.

I like what's going on now - give him young guys like Byron and maybe Jooris to play with on a lower line. If he gradually regains confidence from extended good effort and play (as opposed to people assuming it just comes from a single good game) I think he will get more permanent confidence.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

At the NHL level, WHL points are moot anyway. My point was it doesn't always translate and a fair number of average guys did very well points wise in junior.

I think the focus is on what the guy can do here. And if he's not doing well - is it going to change and how? There're lots of options and outcomes, most of which are good for him. Lots of it is up to him.

So are you saying the same player that puts up one point per game is comparable to the player who puts up two?

The more success players have in junior, generally the more success they will have as a pro.

What Sven did in his post-draft year was nothing short of impressive. He was head and shoulders above every other player in the WHL.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

As someone who doesn't particularly care if Sven makes it or not, while you might "agere" with patience, I can tell you with absolute certainty that not only are you grossly exaggerating when you use the term "demand," but your vision of these "boosters" seems invented solely to fuel your own argument.

I could show you the posts, I guess, but you could also go and look yourself.

Every time a Flame went down, and before Granlund, Jooris and Ferland were called up, there were a bunch of posts saying "Bring Sven up!!!" At the time he didn't have a point in the AHL, IIRC.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So are you saying the same player that puts up one point per game is comparable to the player who puts up two?

The more success players have in junior, generally the more success they will have as a pro.

What Sven did in his post-draft year was nothing short of impressive. He was head and shoulders above every other player in the WHL.

Great. I'm pleased for his WHL success. The scouts at the time thought he was a good but not great offensive talent and were concerned about translation to the NHL. They must have been wrong.

[FlamesAddiction]

Patience is always needed when developing prospects, but there has to be a finite level of patience. Eventually young prospects move in and older prospects become waiver eligible. There always comes a point when a decision needs to be made on a player. It's as certain as death and taxes.

I am not saying Baertschi is there yet, but given how close he is to waiver eligibility and how many prospects have passed him on the depth chart so far (not to mention new ones moving in), he needs to figure things out relatively soon. Hopefully last night's game is an indication of things to come.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

As a Flames fan why wouldn't you care if he makes it or not?

Perhaps not the right word? I'm not invested. I don't have any attachment to him as a player, and don't think our success hinges on his success. If he makes it, it would be a bonus.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I could show you the posts, I guess, but you could also go and look yourself.

Every time a Flame went down, and before Granlund, Jooris and Ferland were called up, there were a bunch of posts saying "Bring Sven up!!!" At the time he didn't have a point in the AHL, IIRC.

That's not a demand.

de·mand
dəˈmand/
noun
1.
an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right.

I don't think anyone felt as though Sven being called up was their right, or insisted upon it.

You're confusing something someone would like to see with them making a demand for it. It isn't the same, so you're arguing against your own exaggerated invention of a position.

[GioforPM]

OK, demand was hyperbole. Obviously, no one here can demand.

But if you want to be that picky, you seem to ignore that I used demand as a verb, not a noun, and you missed this:

2. to ask for peremptorily or urgently.

[Chill Cosby]

So what's the value in arguing against your own hyperbole?

[GioforPM]

Forget I said demand then. Pretend I said "urgently requested". It's a lack of patience in the development of his confidence, and looking for a quick fix.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Forget I said demand then. Pretend I said "urgently requested". It's a lack of patience in the development of his confidence, and looking for a quick fix.

I don't even know if that's true.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I don't even know if that's true.

It's true that it's in the eye of the beholder, and is just my impression.

One tiny example was today when Glencross missed practice because he was sick (Hartley now says "maintenance"). Right away someone says "does this mean Sven gets top 6 minutes"? Not a demand, obviously, but so impatient. Let Sven have a couple good games where he's at before throwing him on the top line. It's not setting him up for success.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's true that it's in the eye of the beholder, and is just my impression.

One tiny example was today when Glencross missed practice because he was sick (Hartley now says "maintenance"). Right away someone says "does this mean Sven gets top 6 minutes"? Not a demand, obviously, but so impatient. Let Sven have a couple good games where he's at before throwing him on the top line. It's not setting him up for success.

Who said that?

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's true that it's in the eye of the beholder, and is just my impression.

One tiny example was today when Glencross missed practice because he was sick (Hartley now says "maintenance"). Right away someone says "does this mean Sven gets top 6 minutes"? Not a demand, obviously, but so impatient. Let Sven have a couple good games where he's at before throwing him on the top line. It's not setting him up for success.

Uh, that's a question, and has nothing to do with a lack of patience.

If you're going to argue that people aren't patient, it's probably best if you don't exaggerate the opposite position to the point of hyperbole, backtrack and say "it's my impression," and then have your only actual example of your entire position be someone asking a simple and logical question.

[GioforPM]

Sure - it was just a general question. So why wasn't it "Does than mean Byron gets top 6 minutes"? Or Jooris?

Do you really want me to list examples of people posting hoping for a Sven recall right after injuries? Really?

Look, I want Sven to succeed. Perhaps you can address the longer post rather than picking at the wording of demand versus request versus a so-called simple question.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's true that it's in the eye of the beholder, and is just my impression.

One tiny example was today when Glencross missed practice because he was sick (Hartley now says "maintenance"). Right away someone says "does this mean Sven gets top 6 minutes"? Not a demand, obviously, but so impatient. Let Sven have a couple good games where he's at before throwing him on the top line. It's not setting him up for success.

Why does that bother you?

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sure - it was just a general question. So why wasn't it "Does than mean Byron gets top 6 minutes"? Or Jooris?

Do you really want me to list examples of people posting hoping for a Sven recall right after injuries? Really?

Look, I want Sven to succeed. Perhaps you can address the longer post rather than picking at the wording of demand versus request versus a so-called simple question.

Right, why wasn't in?
Better question: Why do you only care when it's Sven, instead of Byron or Jooris?

I do, really, want you to list examples of people demanding Sven's call-up without a hint of patience.

My point is that you're exaggerating the positions of others to the point of hyperbole, and then arguing that hyperbole. Your examples aren't examples of your position, they're examples of your exaggeration.