[PGT] Canes 4 - Flames 1

[waner]

Are people letting their like of McGrattan as a person cloud their judgement of him as a hockey player? He is awful out there. The only reason he wouldn't make as many mistakes with the puck as Bollig is that McGrattan is incapable of getting the puck to make mistakes with it.

McGrattan is the worst skater, he is an absolute liability when not fighting. Considering there is maybe 5 guys left in the league that would be willing to fight him at this point there is no reason to keep him on the team, let alone have him out there on the ice.

He may be a good guy in the locker room but he is a nightmare, more for his own team than anything else, on the ice.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Jones and Setoguchi are playing decent, so now we have Bollig as the new whipping boy.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

It's so funny watching posters switch their opinions on the flames after every game. An impressive win means the flames are a playoff team. A disappointing loss means the Flames don't have what it takes.

Every team has games like these, especially after extended road trips. Chalk me up as one of the 'meh' guys. We go home with a winning road record and hopefully get 1 of 5 injured/sick players back in the next couple games.

[PeteMoss]

Bollig is fine, but when everyone comes back I'd rather have him in the press box with McGrattan (with Setoguchi in the AHL) and keep guys like Granlund and Jooris up.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Jones and Setoguchi are playing decent, so now we have Bollig as the new whipping boy.

Jones, yes. Setoguchi, hell no. Setoguchi's effort is there, but he's not doing anything particularly well and was very much the goat last game. Team worst +/- and 0 points on the year despite significant PP time. I can't even think of a significant offensive chance he's had, which would tell me things just haven't ton his way point wise. Seto is not playing decent.

Bollig is not doing what he was brought here for: Toughness. I can't recall a fight he's been in, nor a big hit he's laid, nor a scrum that he's gotten intense in, and the rest of his play has been dropping since the beginning of the year. He's not being smart with the puck anymore, he's not defending particularly well, and he's fumbling every offensive chance he gets. Bollig deserves to sit and let McGrattan play a game or two. Doesn't mean I want him off the team right now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Jones, yes. Setoguchi, hell no. Setoguchi's effort is there, but he's not doing anything particularly well and was very much the goat last game. Team worst +/- and 0 points on the year despite significant PP time. I can't even think of a significant offensive chance he's had, which would tell me things just haven't ton his way point wise. Seto is not playing decent.

Bollig is not doing what he was brought here for: Toughness. I can't recall a fight he's been in, nor a big hit he's laid, nor a scrum that he's gotten intense in, and the rest of his play has been dropping since the beginning of the year. He's not being smart with the puck anymore, he's not defending particularly well, and he's fumbling every offensive chance he gets. Bollig deserves to sit and let McGrattan play a game or two. Doesn't mean I want him off the team right now.

I can't help think that management made a mistake on Bollig. It was one thing to bring him in as a 4th line energy player. A third rounder was a pretty high price, but if they liked him that much for the role, then not a huge deal I suppose.

The problem I think, came from the comments Treliving made after acquiring him. He was saying that they expected Bollig to have an expanded roll in Calgary and to elevate his game. I can't help but think Bollig has changed his game based on those comments.

[Phanuthier]

^ agreed... I had a lot higher expectations of Bollig (not through any expertise or viewing or anything)......... I actually thought he might be able to play on the 2nd line

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

^ agreed... I had a lot higher expectations of Bollig (not through any expertise or viewing or anything)......... I actually thought he might be able to play on the 2nd line

I never thought he would be a 2nd line player, but I think flames management was hoping he might get to 3rd line player.

I don't mind Bollig as many on this site. He is a 4th line player with a cheap cap hit. My only problem with acquiring him was giving up a 3rd round pick.

[GioforPM]

I don't mind a low point gritty guy. But Bollig is just scary bad in hiz own zone. Worse than Seto, though Seto's supposed to get points which he ain't doing.

I just can't recall McGrattan screwing up like Bollig on the 3rd goal. They guy fell oevr his own feet, got up even with the puck carrier, but never made it into the play before the goal was scored. I don't see anyone afraid to go into the corners with him, or having trouble with him in front of the net.

I do think that one or two should go down when the bodies come back. It's been nice that the rookies have played well enough for there to be no pressure on recovery time.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by devo22

Have to think Setos time in Calgary is up soon. Once our forwards get healthy, he has to be gone. They'll surely send down Max and Sven ahead of him (probably Ferland too), but Jooris and Granny have both easily earned a spot over him. So once we get Raymond, Colborne and Backlund back, he should hit the waiver wire IMO.

I can't remember which post-game it was, but Hartley mentioned that he was happy with Setoguchi's play and had no complaints or something along those lines. I can't remember the exact words anymore but I recall him being very complimentary of him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

I can't remember which post-game it was, but Hartley mentioned that he was happy with Setoguchi's play and had no complaints or something along those lines. I can't remember the exact words anymore but I recall him being very complimentary of him.

I've defended his play over the last few games (esp. versus Sven). Last night wasn't good.

But Hartley can only be commenting on effort. I haven't seen him have a bunch of near misses or being robbed by the goalie. Both he and Sven don't seem to have a lot of poise or technique at the net. If the puck's close they just bang it into the pads. As opposed to Jooris' first goal in Mtl, where he calmly controlled the puck and moved it wide of the pads.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I never thought he would be a 2nd line player, but I think flames management was hoping he might get to 3rd line player.

I don't mind Bollig as many on this site. He is a 4th line player with a cheap cap hit. My only problem with acquiring him was giving up a 3rd round pick.

I was hoping he would be like a 2nd coming of Chris Simon for us

[AcGold]

I don't know how anyone thinks Setogouchi is anything but the worst player on the team. He produces nothing and is -7 with 12 shots in 10 games. Mcgrattan is -1 and has 8 shots in 5 games. Yes Mcgrattan sucks but at least he can intimidate and hit people, Setogouchi serves no purpose.

He doesn't provide intimidation, makes boneheaded plays every game and he kills the offense of every line he's on. He needs to be off the team asap, there have been other guys like Butler or Smith that would be OK sometimes but Setogouchi has to be the worst player we've had since we were calling up Hitmen to play with Iginla. No offense to the guy on a personal level but he can't play anymore and the way he just annihilates any offensive threat needs to change. Send out Mcgrattann to stand in front of the net, he couldn't be any worse.

The guy is on pace for 0 points and a -60 on the season.

[waner]

Who does McGrattan intimidate and who does he really hit?

Hrudy showed McGrattan "doing his thing" against St. Louis and Lapierre when they played and it showed just how useless McGrattan was. He skated over to confront Lapierre who just turned away. Then came in to throw a big hit and Lapierre just easy stepped around him and barely had to break stride to continue on with the breakout.

Anyone who would fight McGrattan isn't intimidated by him and anyone else either a. doesn't have to fight him if they don't want and b. can skate around him if he tries to hit them.

Volchenkov certainly wasn't intimated when he hit Ferland the other day with McGrattan out there for the Flames.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Jones and Setoguchi are playing decent, so now we have Bollig as the new whipping boy.

Jones is playing ok finally. Setoguchi is hot garbage out there. He is more of a liability than Mcgratton or Bollig.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by waner

Who does McGrattan intimidate and who does he really hit?

More than Setogouchi. I stated Mcgrattan sucks, but at least he can serve a purpose in the right situation. Setogouchi is a negative, I'd like to know how many goals we've scored when he's been on the ice. When Brodie and Gio are on the ice with him it makes me sad.

Mcgrattan would at least be cheering people up providing energy on the bench, give Setogouchi credit for trying but he is clearly the worst guy on the team. There has to be 10 kids in Addy that would do better.

[flamesfever]

I think it's healthy to have the odd bad game, where the opposition seem to have the edge. It moderates the expectation of fans, reduces the pressure on players, and brings the whole scene back to reality. I think many lose the fact that it's a game of inches, and the worst team can beat the best team on any given night. As long as the players give their best, which I think is often underestimated by fans during a loss, I am satisfied.

[dammage79]

Setoguchi for me needed to show a spark around this point of the season, he just hasn't done it for me. Need to ride the press box for a while. But until Raymond and Colborne return there really isn't much that will be done.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by AcGold

More than Setogouchi. I stated Mcgrattan sucks, but at least he can serve a purpose in the right situation. Setogouchi is a negative, I'd like to know how many goals we've scored when he's been on the ice. When Brodie and Gio are on the ice with him it makes me sad.

Mcgrattan would at least be cheering people up providing energy on the bench, give Setogouchi credit for trying but he is clearly the worst guy on the team. There has to be 10 kids in Addy that would do better.

Setoguchi at even strength:
Goals against/60: 4.955
Goals for/60: 1.101
Per 60 minutes he's worth just under -4 goals.
GF%(goals for on the ice/goals against on ice): 18.2%
Calgary as a team? 52.5.

That's horrendous play. Our next worst is Smid at 30% for reference.

Bollig at even strength:
GA/60: 2.677
GF/60: 1.912
Net: -0.765

Last year for Chicago he managed to be a net negative player as well somehow - one of 5 Hawks with at least 500 minutes to manage this.

McGrattan hasn't been a positive GF% player in his time here. His two seasons here have had a GF% of 30% and 43%. The Flames as a team had a GF% of 40, and 44.4% respectively. He's below average in both instances on a team that has been amongst the league's bottom 5 in the category those two years. He's part of the problem and not the solution. As for the intangibles argument, he's played a grand total of 0 playoff games. Obviously coaches don't see the value of inserting him into the lineup in the most important games. This includes Ottawa's Finals run in 05-06.

TL;DR: Setoguchi has been far and away the Flames worst player, and does way more harm than good. McGrattan and Bollig also don't deserve anywhere near the ice for us.

[SuperMatt18]

Setoguchi is done.

He had his chance due to injuries to the team, and has done nothing to impress.

If he stays up when the team is healthy that would be a terrible decision.