Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by T@T

I asked a buddy from the city about the possible location in the area of the old science center.

Answer - 99.9% not likely as the rumored project is too large.

Off topic, but are there any plans to use or re-purpose the old Science Centre for anything?

[nik-]

Someone was saying earlier in the thread that it was going to be an art gallery.

At least I think someone said that, I could have totally imagined it.

[SinceDay1]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Off topic, but are there any plans to use or re-purpose the old Science Centre for anything?

Announced last week that it would be used an art gallery.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1631798/ne...s-planetarium/

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by SinceDay1

Announced last week that it would be used an art gallery.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1631798/ne...s-planetarium/

Interesting. I read that they had put together a proposal but I hadn't heard if there was actually a decision made yet. An art gallery should be a good use of space.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by #-3

If you look at the speculated layout, on the map i posted above. they would have to,

knock down GLS Chev, Hyatt, Gray Hound, and some light retail, south of the tracks.

Move Bow Trail

And Rebuild the 14th Over pass.

It would not need to impact the armory, millennium park, or the old science center at all. I could actually see the arena doing something positive for those 3 buildings long term.


edit: and I guess my map had them knocking down the pumphouse theater for parking, but I guess they wouldnt need to do that

Moving Bow trail would be the toughest out of those items.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Moving Bow trail would be the toughest out of those items.

But would be a good thing in the long term to free up riverfront space. The south bank of the Bow River would be pretty stunning all the from the West Village to Inglewood as one long riverwalk path.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by RM14

But would be a good thing in the long term to free up riverfront space. The south bank of the Bow River would be pretty stunning all the from the West Village to Inglewood as one long riverwalk path.

Bow Trail realignment is already in the Area Redevelopment Plan. What's not in the ARP is any kind of arena.

[Madman]

Does the shadowing bylaw cover the West Village area as well?

That would surely limit things in terms of height as well as proximity to the river - especially if they are looking at building any structures where Renfrew Chrysler is.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by SebC

Bow Trail realignment is already in the Area Redevelopment Plan. What's not in the ARP is any kind of arena.

Thanks. Had not looked at any of those plans.

http://www.realestateforums.com/calg...thias_tita.pdf

[getbak]

Here's the West Village plan that council approved in July 2010 (when Bronconnier was still mayor): http://wpmedia.blogs.calgaryherald.c...illage_arp.pdf

Westbound Bow Trail will be realigned as part of the plan, as will the 14th Street interchange with Bow Trail.

This is a preliminary plan and isn't designed to start implementation until the East Village is further along, although it mentions that the 14th Street revamp and other road work could start sooner.

One big caveat around the project is the issue of the contamination of the area. There has been some speculation that it's so badly contaminated from the wood treatment plant and car dealerships that it could never be cleaned up to the point that it could be approved for residential use.


Regardless of what is built there, it will require a significant amount of money to get it ready for development ... money that will almost certainly have to come from the three branches of government.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by getbak

Here's the West Village plan that council approved in July 2010 (when Bronconnier was still mayor): http://wpmedia.blogs.calgaryherald.c...illage_arp.pdf

Westbound Bow Trail will be realigned as part of the plan, as will the 14th Street interchange with Bow Trail.

This is a preliminary plan and isn't designed to start implementation until the East Village is further along, although it mentions that the 14th Street revamp and other road work could start sooner.

One big caveat around the project is the issue of the contamination of the area. There has been some speculation that it's so badly contaminated from the wood treatment plant and car dealerships that it could never be cleaned up to the point that it could be approved for residential use.


Regardless of what is built there, it will require a significant amount of money to get it ready for development ... money that will almost certainly have to come from the three branches of government.

Rightly or wrongly, it's assumed by many that any kind of money that Edmonton got would be available for Calgary.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Rightly or wrongly, it's assumed by many that any kind of money that Edmonton got would be available for Calgary.

Most of Edmonton's public money came from the city. Edmonton received no money from the federal government for the arena. It's my understanding that the money they're using from the Provincial government for their arena came from a fund that has already been used to fund other projects in Calgary. Also, the provincial government's contributions are only $25 million, which is a small fraction of the total cost.

There's no reason to assume that the Calgary city council will feel obligated to make the same dodgy deals with the Flames that Edmonton made with Katz.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by getbak

Most of Edmonton's public money came from the city. Edmonton received no money from the federal government for the arena. It's my understanding that the money they're using from the Provincial government for their arena came from a fund that has already been used to fund other projects in Calgary. Also, the provincial government's contributions are only $25 million, which is a small fraction of the total cost.

There's no reason to assume that the Calgary city council will feel obligated to make the same dodgy deals with the Flames that Edmonton made with Katz.

Most of the money comes from a CRL, which is approved by the province and funded by both a municipal tax increase and a provincial education tax increase.

http://speakupedmonton.ca/issues/details/crl
http://blog.mastermaq.ca/2010/12/14/...-introduction/

[SebC]

nm

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Most of the money comes from a CRL, which is approved by the province and funded by both a municipal tax increase and a provincial education tax increase.

http://speakupedmonton.ca/issues/details/crl
http://blog.mastermaq.ca/2010/12/14/...-introduction/

More accurate to call it an "increment" (as in Tax Increment Financing - TIF) above a frozen amount that continues to go to general revenue, than an "increase". This, of course, is how East Village improvements are financed. We were the first to do a TIF (Community Revitalization Levy - CRL in our nomenclature) in Canada. It's a very common tool in US cities.

I have little doubt the Flames will propose a CRL to help finance their project.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by getbak

One big caveat around the project is the issue of the contamination of the area. There has been some speculation that it's so badly contaminated from the wood treatment plant and car dealerships that it could never be cleaned up to the point that it could be approved for residential use.

From a contamination perspective a commeircial use is preferred over residential buildings as less remediation is required. I would assume the worst creosote impacted areas would be capped by pavement (ie parking or promenade vs more intensive remediation.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Madman

Does the shadowing bylaw cover the West Village area as well?

That would surely limit things in terms of height as well as proximity to the river - especially if they are looking at building any structures where Renfrew Chrysler is.

The shadowing bylaw isn't too restrictive. The taller Riverfront Pointe condo is 19 stories and not far off the river at all.

Spoiler!

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

I think Sunalta is the perfect choice. Not only is it going to completely revitalise that area, but it's the perfect size and the traffic flow is going to be significantly better than it would be in the fire park area.

I do have a question that perhaps someone can answer. The project is supposed to have an arena, a stadium, and a field house correct?

EDIT: What is the general value of having a field house?

FYP.

That really must have been sarcastic, because traffic is a mess in that area. Bow trail is OK if your headed to the near SW, but anywhere else in the city Crowchild is an ineffective road with terrible lane alignment in both directions from there and to get to memorial you will have to go through downtown or go on Crowchild. It really isn't much better than they have now.

It is really the only negative anyone brings up about the Sunalta location.
Other than that,

the train station is waiting to be integrated into the development,

the realignment of WB Bow will make it a foot traffic friendly area,

Hotels, Bars.... that will follow the stadium should be successful in that area.

Millennium Park, the Armory, The Old Science Center, The Pump house theater provide pre-existing public spaces, that could instantly add to the feel of a civic entertainment district they probably want to create.

But the roads

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by #-3

But the roads

Which honestly isn't really that big of a deal; it's downtown. As long as this project removes the road away from the riverfront, creates a road network that promotes pedestrian activity, and the Crowchild/Bow Trail/Memorial clusterfata gets fixed, that's good enough for traffic.

[Table 5]

I definitely think the biggest downside of the West End is the massive infrastructure clusterfata that would need to be remedied to make it work. I think with the environmental remediation, Bow re-alignment, riverside development, possible Crowchild/Bow fix, possible C-train bridge to Sunalta to handle the load....you could easily spend a billion dollars on fixing that alone. It's definitely not my favorite location if they go on the cheap, but if they want to do it right, it could transform the whole area into something we could all be proud of. I really wish Calgary would've tied this to an Olympic bid to get some federal funding out of it.

Personally, in an ideal world, I think the Railtown lands between 9th and 11th St SW (the huge empty strip of land that's between East Village and Victoria Park) would make for the best location for a mega sports complex like what is being planned. The East side of town has a ton of momentum in terms of redevelopment, is close to the existing entertainment district of the Stampede, and most likely wouldn't require the massive infrastructure changes that the West End area needs to work right. Car traffic wouldn't be much different that it is now, and it's already within walking distance to two C-train lines (although admittedly not as close as the one is now), and would probably be in the path of the SE line as well (so might be something that could be integrated from the start), so would be setup to support a wider range of citizens. Too bad the lands are privately owned by another developer.