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Old 10-10-2014, 05:42 PM   #61
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:31 PM   #62
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Does this mean it will be the Nordiques soon? I hope so. Phoenix fans don't deserve a team.
Getting another owner in Arizona is a positive for the team and league. Why come into a thread just to be a dink?
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:33 PM   #63
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Getting another owner in Arizona is a positive for the team and league. Why come into a thread just to be a dink?
50 owners won't stop them bleeding money and being able to move. Which was likely the plan from the start.
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:49 PM   #64
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Getting another owner in Arizona is a positive for the team and league. Why come into a thread just to be a dink?

How is this a positive for the league? They are still going to bleed money. A positive for the league will be when they pack up and move somewhere else where they can sell merchandise and have a fan base.
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:52 PM   #65
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Getting another owner in Arizona is a positive for the team and league. Why come into a thread just to be a dink?
No, it's not a positive. It's just a stop gap for the inevitable, and that is the Coyotes having to relocate. I hope it is sooner rather than later. Not sure how that is being a dink. I am sick of franchises who obviously can't survive because they have a weak fan base try to hold on for dear life when it will never work.

Not only are the Coyotes losing money, but they are a pretty crappy team and play a boring system which won't bring in new fans.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:35 AM   #66
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No, it's not a positive. It's just a stop gap for the inevitable, and that is the Coyotes having to relocate. I hope it is sooner rather than later. Not sure how that is being a dink. I am sick of franchises who obviously can't survive because they have a weak fan base try to hold on for dear life when it will never work.

Not only are the Coyotes losing money, but they are a pretty crappy team and play a boring system which won't bring in new fans.
You can pretend that the fact that the NHL's most troubled franchise nearly doubled in value inside of one year is not a positive for the league, but it would be rather foolish.

We all know that Coyotes are still in deep trouble, and we all know they are likely gone after the 5-year clause kicks in. The only thing your incessant crying about the continued (temporary) existence of a team that has even less impact on your life than gay marriage does a Christian couple accomplishes is to reveal that you are simply a butthurt Canadian with delusions of superiority.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:41 AM   #67
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How is Barroway going to come in and turn this team around financially? Everyone before hasn't been able to do it... what makes this guy so special? Does everyone in Arizona owe him a favour or something?
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:49 AM   #68
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You can pretend that the fact that the NHL's most troubled franchise nearly doubled in value inside of one year is not a positive for the league, but it would be rather foolish.

We all know that Coyotes are still in deep trouble, and we all know they are likely gone after the 5-year clause kicks in. The only thing your incessant crying about the continued (temporary) existence of a team that has even less impact on your life than gay marriage does a Christian couple accomplishes is to reveal that you are simply a butthurt Canadian with delusions of superiority.
I'm a hockey fan which has nothing to do with the pros and cons of gay marriage. I like to see hockey doing well whether it's in Japan or Slovenia or Arizona and I'm entitled to have an opinion about it. Yeah it doesn't affect my pocket book much but the franchise in Phoenix is embarrassing for hockey and for the commissioner who's done all he can to keep it in the league. This is a team that has never made a profit no matter how good the team has been or how stable the ownership has been but still they pump good money after bad. Why they were given another 5 years was one of the stupidest decisions made.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:52 AM   #69
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"Hockey" cares less about the business decisions that relate to one team in one league than your cat does.
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:35 PM   #70
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"Hockey" cares less about the business decisions that relate to one team in one league than your cat does.
You don't give a crap, fine. I do and when I don't care about a subject, I stay out of the discussion. You should take the same advice.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:01 PM   #71
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You don't give a crap, fine. I do and when I don't care about a subject, I stay out of the discussion. You should take the same advice.
So why does it bother you so much that Phoenix/Arizona are still in the league, if you don't mind me asking? Do you have a personal stake or do you think that there are better places for the team to be located? What would those locations be and why?

These are discussion points, not just bashing that Arizona doesn't love hockey and support it to your standards. Quebec and Winnipeg both had teams, both lost teams because they lost a ton of money and had nobody willing to continue putting money into the teams. When Atlanta moved to Winnipeg everyone was cheering but from what I understand the market is already starting to soften with people losing interest again as the team is not performing well enough, sure they still are selling out, but the press and fans are starting to question things again. I personally am a firm believer that when a market like Winnipeg lost support one time they will do it again.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:08 PM   #72
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So why does it bother you so much that Phoenix/Arizona are still in the league, if you don't mind me asking? Do you have a personal stake or do you think that there are better places for the team to be located? What would those locations be and why?

These are discussion points, not just bashing that Arizona doesn't love hockey and support it to your standards. Quebec and Winnipeg both had teams, both lost teams because they lost a ton of money and had nobody willing to continue putting money into the teams. When Atlanta moved to Winnipeg everyone was cheering but from what I understand the market is already starting to soften with people losing interest again as the team is not performing well enough, sure they still are selling out, but the press and fans are starting to question things again. I personally am a firm believer that when a market like Winnipeg lost support one time they will do it again.
So is Quebec out of the question to get another team? I guess the owners in Minny are looking for a new location as well.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:22 PM   #73
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So is Quebec out of the question to get another team? I guess the owners in Minny are looking for a new location as well.
I never said that, I said it is MY belief that when a city fails in supporting a pro sports franchise and then get rewarded in the future with another franchise that the odds of it failing also are quite high. Minnesota lost their first team because the owner got offered a better deal in Dallas, the difference between them, Quebec and Winnipeg is huge. Atlanta lost their original team to Calgary because of lack of support and the owners decided to give it another try, which failed again.

Neither Winnipeg nor Quebec have the corporate support that seems to be needed in today's marketplace. They both have rich owners, but just about every team in the NHL have extremely rich owners. No matter what we feel they will only lose money for so long on the franchise.

Arizona keeps losing money. The one owner, with the support of Richard Rodier, tried an end around to get the franchise into the hands of a shady idiot (tried 3 times to buy teams and move them without league approval). The other owners, with the support of NFL, NBA and MLB, fought this to keep control of who gets a franchise/market. This is the only reason why there still is a team in Arizona. It probably isn't the best market for this team but the city made a commitment to the NHL which the league is trying to help support because it will affect other markets in the future. If the league demands/expects new arena's be built for their franchises and just lets them move whenever they want, they will not get any facilities built.

Glendale screwed up by trying to become a major league market in the middle of nowhere. And it is not just on the NHL. They built spring training facilities for MLB which they are also losing money on, they built a football stadium for the NFL/College which barely gets used and it was all based on developing the surrounding area to make it like Staples Center in LA. All stadiums are built based on real estate development these days. I can not think of one that was specifically built for the sports team only (maybe Cowboys Stadium).

I am more than willing to be proven wrong, so please show me where my thoughts are incorrect.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:35 PM   #74
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Quebec and Winnipeg lost heir franchises in the 90's due to a weak Canadian dollar, which meant that the support they did receive was in no way equal to the amount American markets would recieve. Clearly judging by the support both the nordiques and the old school jets recieve (let alone the amount of celebration which occurred when the jets returned). It is quite clear that they were not lost due to lack of support in the community but rather from the economic context of the time, which was also the reason why the flames faltered and almost moved in the 90's
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:40 PM   #75
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Quebec and Winnipeg lost heir franchises in the 90's due to a weak Canadian dollar, which meant that the support they did receive was in no way equal to the amount American markets would recieve. Clearly judging by the support both the nordiques and the old school jets recieve (let alone the amount of celebration which occurred when the jets returned). It is quite clear that they were not lost due to lack of support in the community but rather from the economic context of the time, which was also the reason why the flames faltered and almost moved in the 90's
Winnipeg Jets attendance:

1984-1985 12978
1985-1986 13694
1986-1987 13592
1987-1988 12681
1988-1989 12775
1989-1990 13105
1990-1991 12932
1991-1992 12990
1992-1993 13406
1993-1994 13130
1995 13012
1995-1996 11313

Quebec was closer to 14-15K per year. Winnipeg had lots of problems, not just the low Canadian dollar.

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Old 10-11-2014, 04:06 PM   #76
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I think you need to reformat that last post, Beatle17. I can't make any sense out of those numbers.

If you are trying to separate items by using the tab key, you should probably bear in mind that tab characters don't do anything in HTML. Browsers just strip them right out and ignore them, as a rule.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:22 PM   #77
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I think you need to reformat that last post, Beatle17. I can't make any sense out of those numbers.

If you are trying to separate items by using the tab key, you should probably bear in mind that tab characters don't do anything in HTML. Browsers just strip them right out and ignore them, as a rule.
I will try. Not too computer literate.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:51 PM   #78
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I will try. Not too computer literate.
That's much better now. Thank you!

And more to the point: Those are some terrible attendance figures. Couple that with a team that had no playoff success at all (except for those two first-round wins against the Flames ), and you have a first-class recipe for red ink.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:53 PM   #79
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Winnipeg Jets attendance:

1984-1985 12978
1985-1986 13694
1986-1987 13592
1987-1988 12681
1988-1989 12775
1989-1990 13105
1990-1991 12932
1991-1992 12990
1992-1993 13406
1993-1994 13130
1995 13012
1995-1996 11313

Quebec was closer to 14-15K per year. Winnipeg had lots of problems, not just the low Canadian dollar.
It's hard to draw fans when you can't afford to keep your players because you can't afford them because the Canadian dollar was only worth $.65. In effect all the Canadian teams except for the Leafs were in trouble and were becoming farm teams for the US teams. Even saying that the Winnipeg attendance was probably as good as or better than today's Phoenix attendance. The attendance figures around the league were lower in those days also. What you need to look at are the reasons a city lost their team to see if they had a legitimate excuse. Phoenix has run out of excuses. I have nothing against Phoenix, I have relatives there. It just isn't a viable hockey town.

Yeah there are better places to re-locate. Quebec City is building a new arena and has their finances all set. Seattle has people in place to own a team there. Las Vegas and Kansas City are also looking for a team. Another team in S. Ontario should also make money.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:55 PM   #80
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It's hard to draw fans when you can't afford to keep your players because you can't afford them because the Canadian dollar was only worth $.65.
That explains the figures from the 1990s. But for the first six years on that list (1984-1990), a Canadian franchise won the Cup every single year, so currency issues were not a significant problem. And yet the Jets failed to average 14,000 attendance even once.
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