They don't, they are one of the most propped up by EU membership. Their debt load is quite scary. Think Greece, they aren't much better off.
That is at best a gross oversimplification. Irelands economy had a steady rise for over about a quarter of a century, starting way back before the EU days. This was before the finance crisis struck in the late 2000's. They had one of the worst housing bubbles in the world I believe, which has created most of their troubles right now.
This is actually stuff that Finns keep bringing up in EU. Just because you're a small economy on the borders of Europe without that much in the way of natural resources is no excuse to not have a AAA credit rating, thank you very much. The problems in Greece and Ireland were created by bad politics, not bad economies. (The reason we're talking about this is of course the fact that we've been ending up paying up for the stupidity of our neighbors.)
I think a few of the posters here misunderstand what's going to happen in the event of a yes vote.
Two years after a yes vote Scotland sucsedes from the UK, as a new country it will not be a member of the EU and will not be allowed to join until it has it's own currency and central bank, therefore using the pound in any form is out of the question.
There will be no gradual transfer of power, it wouldn't be in the UKs interest really, this will be an immensely destructive event but 'ripping off the band aid' quickly is the best way to minimize the damage, uncertainty being worse than anything for an economy.
That is at best a gross oversimplification. Irelands economy had a steady rise for over about a quarter of a century, starting way back before the EU days. This was before the finance crisis struck in the late 2000's. They had one of the worst housing bubbles in the world I believe, which has created most of their troubles right now.
This is actually stuff that Finns keep bringing up in EU. Just because you're a small economy on the borders of Europe without that much in the way of natural resources is no excuse to not have a AAA credit rating, thank you very much. The problems in Greece and Ireland were created by bad politics, not bad economies. (The reason we're talking about this is of course the fact that we've been ending up paying up for the stupidity of our neighbors.)
If you mean going from subsistence level farming to selling a few bags of potatoes I will give you that Ireland's economy increased but as a country Ireland has been a disaster, through most of the last century it had 13% emigration rates there was so little work!
It had no manufacturing to speak off, it has been perennially theorist least developed country in Northern Europe, it's only salvation was joining the EU.
I think a few of the posters here misunderstand what's going to happen in the event of a yes vote.
Two years after a yes vote Scotland sucsedes from the UK, as a new country it will not be a member of the EU and will not be allowed to join until it has it's own currency and central bank, therefore using the pound in any form is out of the question.
There will be no gradual transfer of power, it wouldn't be in the UKs interest really, this will be an immensely destructive event but 'ripping off the band aid' quickly is the best way to minimize the damage, uncertainty being worse than anything for an economy.
I certainly lack an understanding of the complexities involved with seceding but I believe that if there is a will, there is a way. I`m in support of Scottish independence if that is their desire.
Last edited by calgarygeologist; 09-16-2014 at 02:41 PM.
If you mean going from subsistence level farming to selling a few bags of potatoes I will give you that Ireland's economy increased but as a country Ireland has been a disaster, through most of the last century it had 13% emigration rates there was so little work!
It had no manufacturing to speak off, it has been perennially theorist least developed country in Northern Europe, it's only salvation was joining the EU.
The Republic of Ireland created a false economy. They borrowed money like it was going out of style. They attracted multi-nationals with near zero tax rates (Oracle, Seagate, etc). They are now forced to pay the piper. They will be paying for a long, long time to come.
Agreed with afc wimbledon without the EU, this frivolous spending could not have occurred.
Yup, you really got me. Now go back and point out where I said it was.
And, what's your point anyway? That because it's not exclusive to them it's therefore ok? You justifying their behaviour?
My point is any group in the UK, has a subset of racists. Racism/bigotry shouldn't define the Orange Order, because a small group of them are totally ignorant. I in no way condone/dismiss their behavior, in fact it causes me great embarrassment, as I have many relatives that were Orangemen.
Being raised in a climate of hatred of others, this is the byproduct.
Ireland/Ulster will be dealing with this for generations.
The "Troubles" were the primary reason my parents emigrated to Canada, so I am eternally thankful for their decision, and even more thankful to our great nation.
If you mean going from subsistence level farming to selling a few bags of potatoes I will give you that Ireland's economy increased but as a country Ireland has been a disaster, through most of the last century it had 13% emigration rates there was so little work!
It had no manufacturing to speak off, it has been perennially theorist least developed country in Northern Europe, it's only salvation was joining the EU.
A disaster? What rubbish. Admittedly they're going through a rough patch recently (of which they're now emerging - they exited the EU bailout programme in December), but before the economic crisis, they had continous growth for 24 consecutive years - the highest growth rates in the entire continent.
A disaster? What rubbish. Admittedly they're going through a rough patch recently (of which they're now emerging - they exited the EU bailout programme in December), but before the economic crisis, they had continous growth for 24 consecutive years - the highest growth rates in the entire continent.
Yes it should. Because that is exactly what they are about.
Just you go out and marry a Catholic and bring her to your orange relatives for a meet and greet.
Most of them are in the dirt, so it isn't really an issue. I am in fact common-law with a Catholic, and as a Canadian it doesn't mean a thing. In fact to all my Irish relatives it is also a non-issue, they know I am not bound by their ridiculously stupid history.
Last edited by Flacker; 09-16-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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If you mean going from subsistence level farming to selling a few bags of potatoes I will give you that Ireland's economy increased but as a country Ireland has been a disaster, through most of the last century it had 13% emigration rates there was so little work!
It had no manufacturing to speak off, it has been perennially theorist least developed country in Northern Europe, it's only salvation was joining the EU.
They were also ranked to have the best standard of living in the world by The Economist in 2005. But really, Ireland is a sidetrack.
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as a new country it will not be a member of the EU and will not be allowed to join until it has it's own currency and central bank, therefore using the pound in any form is out of the question.
Says you. Funny thing is, lots of stuff like this has been done.
Most newly independent countries don't have a central bank, yet every European country has been able to create one. Estonia in fact had a central bank for a year before they became independent. Scotland could probably do that too.
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There will be no gradual transfer of power, it wouldn't be in the UKs interest really, this will be an immensely destructive event but 'ripping off the band aid' quickly is the best way to minimize the damage, uncertainty being worse than anything for an economy.
A few comments.
1) Obviously the legal transfer of legislative power would be an overnight thing, but that is not all there is to how an economy and how politics actually work. You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that there is nothing stopping the Scottish from negotiating trade deals that take effect from the day they become independent. If the UK wants to be difficult about it they can, but since the Scottish can sign those deals the day after they become independent, it's really mostly a matter of whether or not Scotland will find willing partners.
But really, UK will be the first in line to negotiate various trade deals and free movement deals with Scotland. There are tons of UK companies that have something going on in Scotland, and vice versa. Those companies and their employees and their families (plus every neoliberal capitalist) will have a vested interest in business running as usual. Those people will not care about who runs which country, they will want as little as possible to change in their everyday life. That's a lot of money and votes that the government of UK will want to salvage. (Not David Cameron mind you, I doubt he survives a "yes" vote.)
(Also; to stop free movement of trade and people between England and Scotland they would need to put up a border where none has existed for 300 years. Somehow I just don't see this happening.)
2) It only took tiny, poor and formerly socialist Slovenia 5 years to become a EU country after their independence. So why would EU membership be a significant hurdle to Scotland, which is a peaceful, well-liked, English-speaking (sort of) capitalist country that has an economy among the top 20 in Europe?
3) You also seem to keep forgetting that Scotland already IS a country, with it's own parliament, it's own police and it's own bureaucracy. They're just not independent. If Scotland would vote yes, they would probably be the best positioned country in human history to go on with their independence.
The only reason why they couldn't join the EU is because other European countries are worried about the example they'll set in places like Catalonia and Padania. However, that's a struggle between capitalism (which wants free trade) and regional governments. I think at this point in history there's not much question which side wins those battles.
The findings show that the current predictions of extensive untapped reserves of oil and gas could be underestimated by 100%. The West Coast alone could provide oil and gas for at least 100 years with an estimated value of more than £1 trillion.
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“Previously inaccessible fields are becoming more and more accessible with improved technology, advanced recovery techniques and the desire of oil majors to invest billions of pounds across Scotland. Exploration in the West Coast is only just beginning and it is very possible that we have underestimated the true potential reserves of oil and gas in Scotland. This is a very exciting time for our industry with the North Sea experiencing a second boom and West Coast of Scotland very much in its infancy.”
Bad news for global warming, but probably good news for the Yes-party.
Does the Bank of Scotland not exist today? They adopt the Euro as their currency?
You cannot join the EU or adopt the euro without having your own currency, central bank and meeting stringent economic tests, mostly around public debt.
They have establish themselves first before they can join.
