[GT] Flames vs Canucks

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by heep223

The hit was "a little late and little high" according to Corrado.

That is absolute crap. This was not a hit - it was a blatant elbow. His elbow to JG's head was the only part of his body that contacted the player at all. Furthermore he was specifically targeting Johnny:

"I saw an opportunity to make a hit on one of their skill players."

Guys I understand the need to be aware of the fact that we're biased etc...but this was a targeted headshot. He lunges out with his elbow, Johnny doesn't put himself in a "vulnerable position" right before the hit.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

I have tried to be unbiased about the hit, but it is very evident that he was going to miss his check and last second he threw out his arm towards the head. Was it his intention to go after the head? Maybe not, he was trying for a big hit and missing that he instinctively threw out his arm, it connected with the head and as such it should be a major and further penalty should occur. The problem is that his "instinction" was to throw out the arm and that is what needs to be addressed, until these guys change their "instinction" they will continue to get majors. If they continue then they will eventually be out of the game of hockey all together, hopefully not ending a career in the meantime. But hardly a game goes by that you don't see a similar play from someone who misses a big check and throws out an arm, many times it doesn't hit the head but against a smaller player chances are better imo.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I totally agree.


But here is where I disagree. I don't think Gaudreau could have done anything more to ensure that the hit did not occur apart from dumping the puck and peeling off. It was absolutely the right play, and he shouldn't be at all faulted for "not paying proper attention." Corrado lunged and took a swipe at him. I do think that it was probably an instinctive response on his part borne of panic because Gaudreau neatly avoided the check, but it was still a dirty hit, and Gaudreau did nothing to provoke it apart from making his man miss.

Can't disagree with you either lol. I was pretty much parroting what Johnny said in his post game...saying it was a hockey play and he needs to keep his head on a swivel. Things happen fast, I can't imagine trying to make decisions at that speed.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Can't disagree with you either lol. I was pretty much parroting what Johnny said in his post game...saying it was a hockey play and he needs to keep his head on a swivel. Things happen fast, I can't imagine trying to make decisions at that speed.

He did have his head up. He knew the hit was coming and completely dodged it. Corrado would've looked like an idiot and just ran into the boards if he played it clean, and we'd be praising how Gaudreau's so smart but instead Corrado had to save face and throw out the elbow.

This is why, in my opinion, Gaudreau will never get injured by a clean hit just due to physicality or size. He's far too shifty and aware to get leveled. But he (and any other player) will always be at risk of dirty plays.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Regorium

He did have his head up. He knew the hit was coming and completely dodged it. Corrado would've looked like an idiot and just ran into the boards if he played it clean, and we'd be praising how Gaudreau's so smart but instead Corrado had to save face and throw out the elbow.

This is why, in my opinion, Gaudreau will never get injured by a clean hit just due to physicality or size. He's far too shifty and aware to get leveled. But he (and any other player) will always be at risk of dirty plays.

I've seen Johnny get laid out multiple times with clean hits. He's not as good at avoiding hits as people seem to think he is.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by codynw

I've seen Johnny get laid out multiple times with clean hits. He's not as good at avoiding hits as people seem to think he is.

Yeah, I agree with this. Great at recovering, bad at avoiding.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Yeah, I agree with this. Great at recovering, bad at avoiding.

Just because he does get hit does not mean that he isn't very good at avoiding hits. It is not possible for him to dodge them all, but he is still excellent at avoiding hits; its the reason why Sam Reinhart called him a "ghost" after last years WJC.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Haha Corrado's comments.

I'd like to see where a Flames player went after Shinkaruk. From what I can remember, the play before I think it was Kanzig who cleared the front of the net (which happened to be Shinkaruk). That's when Kanzig and Shinkaruk were mouthing off at each other. I don't recall seeing any "going after skill players" as Corrado remembers it.

[AC]

It'll be interesting to see if the Canucks choose to protect Corrado by not playing him in the preseason games on the 25th and 26th.

I'm all for not letting things get out of hand, but Corrado should have to answer the bell and fight someone after an intentional targetting of one of our skilled players, especially given Corrado's comments.

Have a fight at the start of the next game and be done with it. Otherwise things will escalate if the Flames as a team don't feel they were able to respond.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I think it merits a 2-3 game suspension. Won't happen but this is the exact garbage that needs to be removed from the game. Corrado himself said it was premeditated and it was a blatant head shot, I don't see why it's not a suspension even if there are examples of much worse hits.

[AC]

Corrado coming out and admitting it was premeditated to go after a small skilled player, who he knew wouldn't retaliate, is almost as dumb as the actual elbow.

Can you imagine if Paul Byron, after last year's season finale, told reporters he intentionaly went out there to go after one of the Sedins? The Canucks would be waiting for the first chance they got to retaliate.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Poor Bo Horvat. He's getting ripped apart by Canucks fans on HF for lack of offence. If anyone has paid attention to the offensive numbers he put up in the CHL they would know that the kid isn't an offensively gifted player. He's a quality defensive 2/3 center that got hot before the draft and probably picked higher than he should have been. That said if the organization has patience he could still be a very useful player for that franchise but he's not going to replace the Sedins on the first line that's for sure.

Yeah, a buddy of mine said last year he's a potential #1 center. I said 'ummm.....no, he's not'. And I like Horvat. But he's a guy who could probably fill in at the #2 slot if needed, but would excel in the #3 slot. Not saying he plays the same as Backlund, but I think for the two of them the ideal situation is playing as a real solid two-way #3 center who can chip in once in a while and not look too out of place in the #2 slot if there's injuries. Those guys are pretty valuable.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by codynw

I've seen Johnny get laid out multiple times with clean hits. He's not as good at avoiding hits as people seem to think he is.

What? I've watched a lot of games and can't recall him "getting laid out" once, save for the Corrado forearm shiver.

He takes contact when needed, but I haven't seen him play any sort of reckless Taylor Hall hockey...

[bc-chris]

ok... pics from last night

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Great pictures, I especially liked the smith fight. One look at that face and I'm convinced Hunter Smiths floor is McGrattan 2.0. A nice guy who will stand up for teammates and intimidate the entire opposition.

That said, Smith still has a higher ceiling then 4th line goon. I don't know if he has top-6 potential, but could be a 10 goal / 10 fight / 1 000 000 hit per season 3rd line forward.

[djsFlames]

My favourite

[six pack]

Couple of points from my visit to Penticton last night. Firstly nice to see so many Flames Fans young and old, especially in Canuck country.

Else,

1) Am I the only one that thought Klimchuk was a bit of adisappointment? I was looking for a little more effort out of the kid.
2) Defence
a) Still need that powerplay QB with a slapshot.
b) Kanzig can play, I thought this kid is slow and can't do much, but he keeps proving me wrong. (Wish he had a slapshot like Chara)
3) Sorry but Sam Bennett does look like Doug Gilmores clone.
4) Johnny reminded me of Paul Kariya's kid brother. Very similar skating style. With his temperment he is no Theo. I also could not help notice they kept him off the ice for the final 5 mins.
5) New AHL Coach (Ryan) - sure a different style then Troy, it will be interesting to see how this year turns out.

[djsFlames]

Can someone make a gif of the 1 on 4 play by JG?

I know it was in the third period, but can't remember when exactly..

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

I understand that it is a dirty hit but IMO you and a few others are going overboard with the hyperbole.

He clearly did not make the correct play to avoid the hit, he did not get "clotheslined" and what I meant by "worse because he's our player" is that we are way more emotionally invested in JH so the reaction is out of proportion to the crime.

I am not agreeing with the hit, I am not disagreeing that we need to protect the skilled players. My heart stopped for a second when I saw it but at the end of the day it was not, IMO, a rule changer but there are plenty of examples of those out there.

And it was JH who said he needs to have his "head on a swivel" so even he knew he was not paying proper attention. He was expecting college hockey "close the gap speed" and got caught. Good news is he probably learns from this and makes the guy look stupid next time.

What's hyperbole to you is rational to another. I disagree that it's worse because he's our player, Johnny said what he did because he's Johnny and doesn't get mad. There's nothing he could have done, he played it perfectly, had his head up and avoided the check. He didn't get caught and didn't make a mistake. Watch again more closely, I'm not being biased because it has nothing to do with pro vs. college speed.

Johnny sees the hit, turns on the breaks, Corrado completely misses the hit and targets his head with a flying elbow. When I see a players head targeted on a dirty play it makes me like the game less, despite whatever team it's on and your argument that because he's on our team it's more emotional is outright false. When I see Chara gooning it up doing things that would land him in jail on the street and the announcers celebrate it like it's a good hockey play I'm a little disappointed that the one sport I love so much allows utter garbage like that to happen.

Same thing when Gaudreau plays it perfectly and gets assaulted. It's not hockey, it's not fun and there's really no logical defense for it. Lindros and Savard had their careers cut short because the discipline in the league is embarrassing, honestly, I'm embarrassed sometimes to be a hockey fan. It's an opinion, you might not like it but calling it hyperbole is just cheap rhetoric. If it were my way a flying elbow gets you an instant 10 games, crosscheck the numbers and the player goes face first into the boards 15, punching a player after a clean hit repeatedly when he's defenseless should get you 20, cheap blindside that leaves a player knocked out 40. Each time it doubles. The discipline needs to be way more harsh because as it is clean hits are nearly always retaliated upon, you want to defend Corrado attacking Gaudreau for a hit that one of his teammates through? That's hyperbolic to me.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by AcGold

honestly, I'm embarrassed sometimes to be a hockey fan. .

Yikes, that is extremely sad.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Yikes, that is extremely sad.

Why? Why is it that when someone has an opinion others don't agree with it's condemned? I love hockey and it is embarrassing when brutally violent sports like american football or mixed martial arts has more discipline and sportsmanship than hockey.

In mma if a guy throws a late hit he's thrown out of the organization permanently, in hockey the announcers jump out of their seat in excitement. I want to watch hockey with clean hits and a presentation of skill, not emotional thuggery where every hit needs retaliation. If someone wants to fight Kanzig or Smith fine, but the retaliation needs to go, it ruins the viewing experience for me and a lot of people. I don't want to see Johnny laying on the ice with his career shortened because of a play one of his teammates did in another shift or game. Where's the honor? Where's the appreciation for the contributions skilled players bring to the game? An ideal league would have the tough guys going out of their way to not injure the skilled guys because they recognize their importance to the game they play, but they don't, it's selfish emotional thuggery most of the time. Lucic telling people he's going to kill them in the handshake line, all of that nonsense needs to go immediately imo.