[News] TSN.ca's 2014-15 NHL Season Preview: Calgary Flames

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

What Textcritic said.

You said we "could" have a monster on our hands, then went on to say at worst he's going to be Joel Otto.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I'd be absolutely over the moon if Jankowski turned out to be as good as Otto.

Not holding my breath, though.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It may be simply how they define prospect. Baertschi played 26 games last year, he's no longer eligible for the Calder memorial trophy. If the NHL doesn't classify him as a rookie, is he still a prospect?

Although Reinhart doesn't qualify either...

So, shoots that theory full of holes?

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. I expect that like everyone else he read "could" in apposition to "at best a Joe Nieuwendyk," and in sharp contrast to "at worst a Joel Otto."

Good lord. Okay, for clarity. If, and I say if, Jankowski continues to bulk up and progress as he currently is, he should play in the NHL. If he does, he should be very capable of fulfilling the role similar to that of Joel Otto; that being a large defensively sound center, as this is the role he currently excels at in college hockey, not unlike Joel Otto did at Bemidji State. If he continues his offensive development he could be very much like Joe Thornton; that being a large skilled center with silky smooth hands and scoring ability. If his development continues he should be at worst cast in the Otto role.

I would like to point out that Joel Otto was not a banger like some make him out to be. He was a physical player, but mostly based on his size and strength. Otto was not someone who initiated physical play by any stretch of the imagination. Messier was a guy that initiated physical play. Otto was one of those guys that just played the game and was capable of physically dominating because of his size. He didn't go out his way to throw big hits, he just eliminated guys along the boards. This is how Jankowski currently plays. If he gets bigger he could very well continue that trend at the next level, like Joel Otto did when he transitioned from college hockey to the NHL.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by New Era

So, shoots that theory full of holes?



Good lord. Okay, for clarity. If, and I say if, Jankowski continues to bulk up and progress as he currently is, he should play in the NHL. If he does, he should be very capable of fulfilling the role similar to that of Joel Otto; that being a large defensively sound center, as this is the role he currently excels at in college hockey, not unlike Joel Otto did at Bemidji State. If he continues his offensive development he could be very much like Joe Thornton; that being a large skilled center with silky smooth hands and scoring ability. If his development continues he should be at worst cast in the Otto role.

I would like to point out that Joel Otto was not a banger like some make him out to be. He was a physical player, but mostly based on his size and strength. Otto was not someone who initiated physical play by any stretch of the imagination. Messier was a guy that initiated physical play. Otto was one of those guys that just played the game and was capable of physically dominating because of his size. He didn't go out his way to throw big hits, he just eliminated guys along the boards. This is how Jankowski currently plays. If he gets bigger he could very well continue that trend at the next level, like Joel Otto did when he transitioned from college hockey to the NHL.

Stop digging...



Otto was big and mean. He averaged 2.25 PIM for each and every game of the 817 (regular season and playoffs) games he played as Flame.

You would have us believe he was taking a lot of hooking and hold penalties?

Otto had 15 fights in his rookie year in the NHL.

He fought Semenko and Tiger Williams.

By way of comparison Tim Hunter fought 22 times that year.





Robbie Schremp would have been as good as Gretzky if he could skate better and had a lot more hockey sense.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Stop digging...







Otto was big and mean. He averaged 2.25 PIM for each and every game of the 817 (regular season and playoffs) games he played as Flame.



You would have us believe he was taking a lot of hooking and hold penalties?



Otto had 15 fights in his rookie year in the NHL.



He fought Semenko and Tiger Williams.



By way of comparison Tim Hunter fought 22 times that year.











Robbie Schremp would have been as good as Gretzky if he could skate better and had a lot more hockey sense.

What is your obsession with obscure stats?

[Igster]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

More interesting that Granlund is ranked 3rd. The coaching staff was very impressed with his all-around game during his call-up. I think he'll surprise some people.

Not I. Really thought he would have ranked better in the polls on the forum here. Granlund is going to be a player and one who sticks with the big team I bet.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

What is your obsession with obscure stats?

That's how cogent arguments are structured.

in my memory Joel Otto was a big mean SOB of a player that was hard to play against rather than the one described as

Otto was not someone who initiated physical play by any stretch of the imagination.

I went to support my argument by providing statistical evidence that my memory of how Joel Otto played hockey was more factual than

He didn't go out his way to throw big hits, he just eliminated guys along the boards

... Jay Bouwmeester style perhaps.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Otto was big and mean.

Otto was not mean in common sense of the word. Big and physical, yes. Not a wilting violet? Yes. Mean? No. Otto would do what needed to be done, but he was not a mean player. He was a guy that used his size and refused to back down. That does not equate to mean.

He averaged 2.25 PIM for each and every game of the 817 (regular season and playoffs) games he played as Flame.

In an era when penalties were handed out like candy at Halloween. This was an era when every player on the ice during a fight could be, and regularly were, given fighting majors for being on the ice and in a secondary altercation, meaning dropping their gloves. For example, in his rookie season Otto trailed Hunter (291 PIM in 66 games), Sheehy (271 in 65), Peplinksi (214 in 77), Baxter (194 in 47!!!) and was just ahead of Risebrough (169 in 62). A lot of those penalty minutes were a result of being on the ice as a secondary altercation and misconducts.

Otto had 15 fights in his rookie year in the NHL.

How many did he engage an opponent or was the guy that had to respond, and how many were the primary of an engagement? Yeah, you're statistics don't tell the whole story.

Your RGI may say one thing, but it doesn't tell the whole story. I think a certain CP poster who played with Mr. Otto will agree that he was a tough customer, but he played the game cleanly and only responded to challenges. He did not have a mean streak and was not a player that went out and stirred the crap up with his play. Mean was not a term used to describe the guy. He was one of the most effective checking centers in the game because he had size ans strength to handle anyone. The fact that he was so composed frustrated his opponents and made him that much harder to play against.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

Otto was not mean in common sense of the word. Big and physical, yes. Not a wilting violet? Yes. Mean? No. Otto would do what needed to be done, but he was not a mean player. He was a guy that used his size and refused to back down. That does not equate to mean.

That's my recollection as well. There were about nine guys on the Flames rosters he played on who were meaner, who initiated fights or engaged in a lot of slashing and cross-checking. But none of them were tougher than Otto.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Otto was big and mean. He averaged 2.25 PIM for each and every game of the 817 (regular season and playoffs) games he played as Flame.



You would have us believe he was taking a lot of hooking and hold penalties?



Otto had 15 fights in his rookie year in the NHL.



He fought Semenko and Tiger Williams.

Otto was a stalwart, but he was not a headhunter or goon. He was big, strong and impossible to wear down or knock off the puck, but he was not the guy who chased you into the corner and pasted you into the boards. He was the ultimate grind it out player, and was immovable in front of the net.

And, I remember clearly, he was a TERRIBLE fighter. Which is why he didn't do it much after his rookie season. Big guy shows up in the league and there are a lot of guys looking to beat him down. Pretty typical. Otto never backed down, but I can't remember a single scrap he picked.

[Badgers Nose]

I think Poirier will be an NHLer by end of season. He's going to drive people nuts. Calgary really needs a skilled agitator like that.

Granlund showed tremendous promise last seaosn prior to getting hurt.

I really hope Sielof cracks the lineup this year too.

Sven and Johnny H will be interesting cases. Like most people here, I expect Johnny H to have the edge. Not sure if Sven can stick on the RW.

I hope the kids make a lot of older guys expendable at the trade deadline.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Otto was not mean in common sense of the word. Big and physical, yes. Not a wilting violet? Yes. Mean? No. Otto would do what needed to be done, but he was not a mean player. He was a guy that used his size and refused to back down. That does not equate to mean...

I agree entirely with your recollection of Otto, but am also highly sceptical that this is a mould which Jankowski can fill. He is certainly no where nearly as strong on the puck as Otto, and likely never will be. "Tough as nails" does not really describe Jankowski like it does Otto.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree entirely with your recollection of Otto, but am also highly sceptical that this is a mould which Jankowski can fill. He is certainly no where nearly as strong on the puck as Otto, and likely never will be. "Tough as nails" does not really describe Jankowski like it does Otto.

I never said Jankowski would be tough.

"If he does, he should be very capable of fulfilling the role similar to that of Joel Otto; that being a large defensively sound center, as this is the role he currently excels at in college hockey, not unlike Joel Otto did at Bemidji State."

You don't need to be mean to fill the role of a big defensively sound center and be effective. Jankowski won't be a guy that punishes you physically, but I can see him as a guy dominating players on the defensive size of the puck because of his size. I think Jankowski could be tough to play against because of the combination of his size and smarts. He'll be a frustrating player to work against because of his reach and his frame. He'll separate guys from a lot of pucks and break up plays because of his size, and then he'll break up plays because of his smarts. He likely will not end up getting in many fights, but he'll frustrate the hell out of guys and they'll want to take a swing at him. That will make him an effective player if cast in that role.

[Erick Estrada]

Jankowski is the biggest project in the Flames system as he's a big, skinny kid putting up very average stats on a college team. I simply don't feel comfortable comparing him to guys like Poirer who have already lit things up in the CHL and played in the AHL without looking out of place. Jankowski isn't even AHL ready yet and for all we know he may never be. Not saying with any certainty he's a bust but he's got so much development ahead of him that it's really impossible to say one way or another if he will eve be an effective NHL player. I imagine even the Flames don't have a great read on him compared to most of their other top prospects.

[ricardodw]

Jankowski

Top end: Thornton
Bottom end: Otto
Likely end as far as the Flames are concerned: the 2nd round pick in 2017 #51 overall (or lower if there is expansion) when he signs with the team of his choice after his long development cycle.

Chances are he won't be NHL or AHL ready after this season (Comment here please New Era)

That means he will play the full 4 years of his NCAA eligibility and then at no cost to himself be able to sign with whatever team best suits him.

The Flames would have to consider if his top end is closer to Bouma or maybe Cracknell than Otto and whether they would rather have the 2nd round pick. Ie the Flames might not want to sign him..... kind of what the Hawks did with Hayes.

Every time Cracknell is sent down by the Blues the Flames could claim him.

[FBI]

I dunno janko seems like a stand up guy so far. I doubt he will screw the flames over.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Jankowski

Top end: Thornton
Bottom end: Otto
Likely end as far as the Flames are concerned: the 2nd round pick in 2017 #51 overall (or lower if there is expansion) when he signs with the team of his choice after his long development cycle.

Chances are he won't be NHL or AHL ready after this season (Comment here please New Era)

That means he will play the full 4 years of his NCAA eligibility and then at no cost to himself be able to sign with whatever team best suits him.

The Flames would have to consider if his top end is closer to Bouma or maybe Cracknell than Otto and whether they would rather have the 2nd round pick. Ie the Flames might not want to sign him..... kind of what the Hawks did with Hayes.

Every time Cracknell is sent down by the Blues the Flames could claim him.

Wow, it is obvious that you don't like the kid but come on, if you can't see the kind of talent that is there I suggest you check him out again! The kid has the god given talent to be very effective at the next level and most likely the NHL. Let him grown into his body and then watch out.

Also when comparing him to Poirier, two very different leagues, two very different systems, I think if you had placed Jankowski in the QMJHL he would have put up some serious points, it is far more offensive and you are playing against boys, not fully grown men who play much more refined, defensive systems.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FBI

I dunno janko seems like a stand up guy so far. I doubt he will screw the flames over.

in 2 years when he is ready (has to) turn pro:

Bennett will be coming off his rookie year, Monahan will have signed his RFA deal and Backlund will be locked up long term.

Stajan will have 2 years left on his contract.


Him not getting in line behind Arnold, Granlund and Knight is not screwing the Flames over.

On the other hand the Flames will also be looking hard at where he fits in and whether a #51 pick is a better asset for the Flames.

[bubbsy]

i see jankowski fairing about the same as a guy like colborne, where it will take them longer to really make a push for an NHL spot, and even then take some time (or never) get to a point where they are able to combine their puck skills and size to be effective offense generators at the NHL level.

i don't see the comparison to otto, as the intensity/will of jankowski has been commented on during people who seem to have watched him play.

I still think baertchi is higher in the prospect rankings , and i suppose the reason we don't see him in the tsn rankings is that they aren't viewing him as a rookie based on games played.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...The Flames would have to consider if his top end is closer to Bouma or maybe Cracknell than Otto and whether they would rather have the 2nd round pick. Ie the Flames might not want to sign him..... kind of what the Hawks did with Hayes...

But Chicago DID make an effort to sign Hayes. He chose to explore other options.