Men-only barber shop controversy

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Safe?? Are men not able to work out by women without feeling labeled a rapist?

So sick of the women treating men like animals who can't control themselves.

So when you're at a pool and the lifeguard yells at some kids to stop running, do you take offense to it? Because you weren't running, why should you be yelled at? No, you realize that the comment isn't directed at you, so you shrug it off. If you aren't the creepy guy at the gym ogling girls in yoga pants, then you aren't the problem. But there are creepy guys at the gym, and unfortunately you have a lot of women who have been victimized by those creepy guys, no matter how few and far between they are. Thus places like Curves exist so those women can feel safe.

If someone is bit by a dog once in their life and is forever anxious around dogs after that event, they aren't saying that all dogs are vicious monsters--they just don't want to put themselves in a situation where they can be faced with that fear again. People are afraid to go into the ocean because they might deal with a shark. No one finds these fears odd, but yet statistics show just how many women deal with harassment and rape, but when women are nervous around men, we're labeled as oversensitive.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Men rape women at the gym? The actions of a few men shouldn't interfere with my rights. I don't appreciate being looked at as a man who can't have a woman work out by him because he might rape them.



If women complain about not being able to get their hair cut as a barber then I want to work out at spa lady.

Are women's only gyms around so they can avoid rape?
No, it's to avoid what actually happens at the gym.

Can you stand to talk about this rationally and with a little empathy? Or it just about your sensibilities?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pylon

I think what bothers me personally, is there is rules that allow men to be excluded, because of the worst traits of a small group of men. And that small group, has allowed a ton of good men, get labelled as in poor light, because of the actions of a few creeps.

I don't think the group of people doing it is really that small. Go back to the #notallmen #yesallwomen fiasco. Women deal with harassment on a fairly regular basis, while the men just roll their eyes and tell them "it's no big deal." If there was an equal level of harassment and assault directed at men by women, your complaint would have some merit. As it is, you sound like white people who complain that they can't say the N word.

If anything, the problem you should have with ladies only gyms is the fact that they're existence is just another reminder that men aren't accountable for their actions, and if women don't want to be harassed, they're the ones who have to change their behaviour.

[GreenLantern]

So at the gym I never go in the ladies only section, if there is a piece of equipment that ended up back there and I can't find it I will ask the person up front to go look for me.

The last thing I ever want to do is make a girl feel uncomfortable, I get it.

Now, what if there men in this barber shop that said the presence of a woman was making them feel uncomfortable and they specifically go there to be in a man only atmosphere and enjoy the privacy. Maybe regular salons make them feel uncomfortable with all the women chatting around the chairs and sideways glances they get in the mirrors (sound familiar?). Then is it ok to exclude? Still no. But could we at least understand and respect that boundary? The same way 99.9% of guys understand and respect the womens only gym boundary even though legally it is not their right to exclude men?

I refuse to believe this barber shop was the only option for this type of hair cut, the same way that the womans only gym is not the only gym option.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

The concept "Some men are awful so it's easier to surround yourself with women" is not the same as "All men are awful."

Maybe you should read.

She specifically said she doesn't feel safe at the gym. That's her problem and maybe something personal but all women gyms are built because women don't feel comfortable working out by men not because they're scared or don't feel safe.

Pretty much the women who work out at all women gyms are either very old or over weight and just don't feel comfortable working out by more young, muscular and fit people. My mom has managed one for 15 years I know what type of women want to work out there.

MOD EDIT: No insults, please.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Men rape women at the gym?

Sure do.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...6#.VAdVOfm1aUo

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Men rape women at the gym? The actions of a few men shouldn't interfere with my rights. I don't appreciate being looked at as a man who can't have a woman work out by him because he might rape them.

If women complain about not being able to get their hair cut as a barber then I want to work out at spa lady.

This woman wanted her hair cut by a barber because she wanted a specific haircut that is likely only going to be done correctly by a barber. The service she is looking to get is not something she is going to get at another salon. She went to this barber shop based on wanting a service that this barber shop offers that she could not get elsewhere.

Is there something you would like to do at Spalady that you cannot do at another similar but unisex place? No. It's petulant "but they get it, I want it."

By all means, if you want to deal with all the crappy parts of being a woman: catcalls on the street, harassment at work, getting turned down for promotions because of gender, making less money because you don't have xy chromosomes, etc, I'll happily hand over all of that and let you also work out at Spalady.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

So when you're at a pool and the lifeguard yells at some kids to stop running, do you take offense to it? Because you weren't running, why should you be yelled at? No, you realize that the comment isn't directed at you, so you shrug it off. If you aren't the creepy guy at the gym ogling girls in yoga pants, then you aren't the problem. But there are creepy guys at the gym, and unfortunately you have a lot of women who have been victimized by those creepy guys, no matter how few and far between they are. Thus places like Curves exist so those women can feel safe.

If someone is bit by a dog once in their life and is forever anxious around dogs after that event, they aren't saying that all dogs are vicious monsters--they just don't want to put themselves in a situation where they can be faced with that fear again. People are afraid to go into the ocean because they might deal with a shark. No one finds these fears odd, but yet statistics show just how many women deal with harassment and rape, but when women are nervous around men, we're labeled as oversensitive.

Checking out a women in yoga pants at the gym is not creepy unless they harass you. I've been checked out at the gym as well and hit on by women but I'm not building an all man gym.

Have your women gyms I really don't care but don't pretend it's because men can't control themselves.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think the group of people doing it is really that small. Go back to the #notallmen #yesallwomen fiasco. Women deal with harassment on a fairly regular basis, while the men just roll their eyes and tell them "it's no big deal." If there was an equal level of harassment and assault directed at men by women, your complaint would have some merit. As it is, you sound like white people who complain that they can't say the N word.

If anything, the problem you should have with ladies only gyms is the fact that they're existence is just another reminder that men aren't accountable for their actions, and if women don't want to be harassed, they're the ones who have to change their behaviour.

That is way, way offside. Not cool.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I do read and a lot better than you. Thanks for being a jackass though.



She specifically said she doesn't feel safe at the gym. That's her problem and maybe something personal but all women gyms are built because women don't feel comfortable working out by men not because they're scared or don't feel safe.



Pretty much the women who work out at all women gyms are either very old or over weight and just don't feel comfortable working out by more young, muscular and fit people. My mom has managed one for 15 years I know what type of women want to work out there.

Cool, then show a little empathy for her situation and get over yourself please.

If she didn't say all men are rapists, then stop pretending like you've been accused of rape. It isn't about you.

If someone doesn't want to enter a building because in the past 1 of the 100 patrons of that building were sexually aggressive towards her, is she accusing the whole building of being sexually aggressive? No. She is simply avoiding a situation where the possibility exists.

Sorry my comment came off a little condescending, but it was in direct response to you being purposely selfish and insensitive towards a very real issue. That said, I am sorry.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Checking out a women in yoga pants at the gym is not creepy unless they harass you. I've been checked out at the gym as well and hit on by women but I'm not building an all man gym.



Have your women gyms I really don't care but don't pretend it's because men can't control themselves.

Some men can't.
Or are you going to deny that many women get sexually harassed almost daily?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pylon

That is way, way offside. Not cool.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "you" as in you personally. I meant the argument sounds similar to "Well if black people can say it, why can't white people. That's like reverse racism," that I hear, sadly, from more people than I should

[Coach]

I have no problem with the shop being geared towards men and advertising itself as such. But the guy shouldn't have refused the woman service IMO.

Not sure how the ladies only gyms work, and I can definitely see why that would be a point of contention. It is for me as well. But just because one business is doing it, doesn't mean they or anyone else should be.

I'm all for a manly march on Curves, but there are many other gyms.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

So at the gym I never go in the ladies only section, if there is a piece of equipment that ended up back there and I can't find it I will ask the person up front to go look for me.

The last thing I ever want to do is make a girl feel uncomfortable, I get it.

Now, what if there men in this barber shop that said the presence of a woman was making them feel uncomfortable and they specifically go there to be in a man only atmosphere and enjoy the privacy. Maybe regular salons make them feel uncomfortable with all the women chatting around the chairs and sideways glances they get in the mirrors (sound familiar?). Then is it ok to exclude? Still no. But could we at least understand and respect that boundary? The same way 99.9% of guys understand and respect the womens only gym boundary even though legally it is not their right to exclude men?

I refuse to believe this barber shop was the only option for this type of hair cut, the same way that the womans only gym is not the only gym option.

Women don't just feel uncomfortable because of sideways glances, they feel uncomfortable because those sideways glances can be accompanied by that guy following them to their car after they work out.

Blind dates: men are afraid she'll be fat or ugly. Women are afraid he'll rape or kill them.

Men may feel uncomfortable being judged by women, of course. All humans have a tendency to be insecure. But women feel uncomfortable because their safety could be at stake. No, not all men are creepy, not all men are rapists. But there are quite a number of them out there, and women never know which one it could be. And if a woman has already dealt with this--she would like to have a safe space to work out, and that doesn't victimize any men, that doesn't take away your rights, guys. You can still go to the gym, you can still work out, there are still plenty of women to ogle while you're there.

There are just also places for women to go if they want another option.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by photon

Not everything is about you.

Photon, I normally agree with you, and what you have to say, but you keep saying that.

By saying that, you are saying that my rights and reputation should be affected by a stereotype cast on all men, because of a minority of pigs. It is not about me, it is about everyone.

In a weird way, my argument argues more for equality, than a lot of other posts in this thread.

Equality means equal for everyone, that is what I am arguing for. However having men's or women's only businesses is anything but equality.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Checking out a women in yoga pants at the gym is not creepy unless they harass you. I've been checked out at the gym as well and hit on by women but I'm not building an all man gym.

Have your women gyms I really don't care but don't pretend it's because men can't control themselves.

1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted, dude. It's a problem. That doesn't mean that 1 in 4 men are sexual predators, but if you're woman, and you know you're likely going to get blamed if you are sexually assaulted, your threshold for any type of harassment is going to be very very low. Seriously, you need to get over yourself. No one is labeling you as a rapist.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "you" as in you personally. I meant the argument sounds similar to "Well if black people can say it, why can't white people. That's like reverse racism," that I hear, sadly, from more people than I should

Thanks.

To me racism/racists are the absolute lowest form of humanity.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by photon

Link gets caught by the profanity filter, here's a shortened version http://goo.gl/yCqLix

Video games are one of the last bastions of the socially and sexually impotent.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

This woman wanted her hair cut by a barber because she wanted a specific haircut that is likely only going to be done correctly by a barber. The service she is looking to get is not something she is going to get at another salon. She went to this barber shop based on wanting a service that this barber shop offers that she could not get elsewhere.

Is there something you would like to do at Spalady that you cannot do at another similar but unisex place? No. It's petulant "but they get it, I want it."

By all means, if you want to deal with all the crappy parts of being a woman: catcalls on the street, harassment at work, getting turned down for promotions because of gender, making less money because you don't have xy chromosomes, etc, I'll happily hand over all of that and let you also work out at Spalady.

Yeah, and the service she wanted wasn't available at this one either. What's the big deal?

There are positives and negatives to both genders. I'm sick of this half-assed attempt at making feminism relevant. Attack an actual issue if you're going to carry the feminist flag, don't make a stink about not being able to have your hair cut the way you want it at a specific barber.

Hell, I'm outraged that the other hair styling places wouldn't provide her the service she wanted. Just because they don't have the skillset to cut that particular style of hair doesn't mean they shouldn't just cut her hair anyways! It's not like they have an option on who they get to provide service to or anything.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pylon

By saying that, you are saying that my rights and reputation should be affected by a stereotype cast on all men, because of a minority of pigs. It is not about me, it is about everyone.

No one is stereotyping all men. Where do you keep getting this idea from? The complaint is "enough men have caused us harm that we'd rather not take our chances." It has nothing to do with you unless you are the one causing harm.