Starting roster 2014 better than 2013?

[RoughRiderRowdy]

I know alot of posters are going to say that last years starting lineup is better than this years starting lineup (projected obviously), but with the prospects all getting a year older, and with all of our off-season player moves, does anyone think that this years starting flames roster is better than last years?

-Its the dog days of summer fellas, no need to post the "another useless thread", i genuinely want to see other peoples opinions and comments. I believe the additions of Bolig, Setoguchi, Engelland, Hiller, David Jones being back and "hopefully" playing up to where he should be, Mason Raymond, and having Wideman back from injury, and a couple surprise rookies making the jump, i believe this years starting lineup will be AT LEAST better on paper than last years. I see one thing jumping out at me, more DEPTH than last year.

Ready, go!

[ComixZone]

Goaltending: Better (Hiller > Berra)
Forwards: Worse (Cammalleri, Stempniak >>> Raymond, Bollig)
Defense: Better (Smid, Engelland >= Butler, O'Brien)

The improvement on D and in net don't outweigh the drop-off in forwards in my opinion. I'd say that right now, our opening day roster last year was better than what our roster looks to be right now. Taking Stempniak and Cammy out of the top 6 and effectively replacing them with a 3rd liner and a 4th liner/13th forward will have the biggest impact on the team.

I'd say right now, we look worse - but who knows what actually happens until we see who makes or doesn't make the team rookie-wise, and who takes a step forward (Monahan? Bouma? Brodie?) and who takes a step backwards (Giordano? Hudler?).

[Zach]

I'd say on par.

[kehatch]

I just responded to one of your posts in another thread. But on paper we are worse this season then last. At forward we lost Cammalleri, replaced Westgarth, Stempniak, and Galiardi with Bollig, Raymond, and Setoguchi. So we are worse there. D stayed about even with Engelland replacing Butler. We got better in goal with Hiller replacing Berra.

Will we perform better? Who knows. Wideman and Glencross could rebound. Baertschi, Gaudreau, or another kid could make us better. Monahan could take a step forward.

Alternatively though Giordano could regress, Monahan could have have a freshman slump, injuries could hurt us, the Flames might have trouble turning effort into wins this time, or they might just have trouble duplicating the effort again.

Its why they play the games. But on paper the Flames have a really horrible roster. I will be watching for prospect development and effort level more than wins this season.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Did the Oilers get better when Gretzky was added to their roster?

[PugnaciousIntern]

I say no, but it's not a huge difference. Flip the situation around, and imagine starting this season after picking up Cammalleri and Stempniak instead of the Engellands and Bolligs - I would be much more excited. As mentioned, solid goaltending and a solid rookie showing from a young gun could make up for the loss in skill.

I just can't name too many teams that this squad could beat on a regular basis.

[mrdonkey]

I think they'll be about the same. Cammy to Raymond is a step down, but Hiller has to be better than Berra so it washes out I think. The big X factor in all this is Gio.

[edslunch]

many of the key players are 'post-apex' and are a year older. This year's lineup is worse

[Finger Cookin]

The wild card is Hiller. If he discovers his past form, the team will do much better in the standings than last year's squad. But I would say the opening roster I expect is slightly worse overall this year.

[Mike F]

To refresh memories (I needed mine refreshed) last year's starting lineup (based on the October 24 game vs Dallas for forwards (first game with healthy forwards) and the opening night vs Washington for defense) was:

Glenncross - Stajan - Stempniak
Cammalleri - Monahan - Hudler
Galiardi - Backlund - D. Jones
Bouma - Colborne - Jackman/McGrattan

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
O'Brien - Butler

Ramo
MacDonald

My Line up this year:

Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Raymond - Stajan - Setoguchi
Bollig - Bouma - Wolf

Giordano - Brodie
Smid - Wideman
Russell - Engelland

Ramo
Hiller


Analysis:

Up front, there is an obvious loss of proven scoring and veteran leadership in Cammalleri and, to a lesser extent, Stempniak. However, this year's group has a chance to be notably better, if: Monahan and Colborne grow the way two young players with a successful year under their belts can; Gaudreau (or one of the other young kids in that slot) prove to be truly NHL ready; Backlund shows that the 2nd half of last year wasn't a mirage; the Bollig - Bouma - Wolf line can handle a true 3rd line energy & checking role, rather than 4th line spot duty as the Raymond - Stajan - Setoguchi line is way too small IMO to play that role.

Once again, the most glaring need, IMO, is a dependable checking & face-off specialist centre. For all of Stajan's heart and dressing room leadership, he's too weak in the face-off circle to be of true value as a 3rd line centre.

On defense, this year's group in a clear step up.

Gio and Brodie return as the top duo, with Gio having shown he can play at an elite level, and Brodie having had a season that gave me hope he can get there soon.

Smid's addition as a solid #4 pushed Russell down the depth chart to play with Engelland who, while vastly overpaid, could do for the third pairing what Smid did for the second. In any case, IMO, Russell - Engelland is a clear improvement over O'Brien - Butler.

The big wild card is Wideman - can he play a role as an offensive catalyst and be not-too-terrible defensively for the entire season? I don't see him as a true #3 d-man, but if he and Smid can both be legitimate #4s, it could be a very solid second pairing.

[Arsonist22]

I don't think the forward group will be worse. Cammy and stempniak scored 34 goals for the flames between them (and another 4 for Pittsburgh). Mason, setoguchi and a full season from glencross should be able to at least match that output.

[Falclore]

Goaltending and Defense are in better shape than last year. Then it is just replacing Cammy and Stempniak for the forward group. Going into last season I would say the 2013 roster would be better on forward, but based on how Cammy and Stempniak actually played and their lack of offense generation most of the year (until after the trade deadline for Cammy) I would say we are at least even with that on forward. If we can get one of the rookies to earn a spot, I think the opening day roster will be an improvement overall.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Mike F

To refresh memories (I needed mine refreshed) last year's starting lineup (based on the October 24 game vs Dallas for forwards (first game with healthy forwards) and the opening night vs Washington for defense) was:

Glenncross - Stajan - Stempniak
Cammalleri - Monahan - Hudler
Galiardi - Backlund - D. Jones
Bouma - Colborne - Jackman/McGrattan

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
O'Brien - Butler

Ramo
MacDonald

Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Raymond - Stajan - Setoguchi
Colborne - Monahan - D.Jones
Bollig - Bouma - McGrattan

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
Smid - Engelland

Hiller
Ramo


Forwards: Flames gave up Cammalleri, Stempniak, Galiardi, Jackman for Raymond, Setgouchi, Bollig. It appears to be a downgrade, but Colborne, Monahan, Backlund with a full season of experience makes them a lot better at the start of this year than last.

Defense: Butler, O'Brien for Smid, Engelland <--- big upgrade, not to mention Brodie getting a full season as a top-pairing defenceman under his belt.

Goalie: Hiller for Berra <--- big upgrade

Not to mention, the Flames could get a big surprise from Gaudreau, Baertschi, or even Bennett.

I think this year's team is stronger than last year's.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

The Cammy/Stemp for Raymond/Setoguchi looks like a net loss for sure, but the case for improvement is that the returnees are mostly young and should improve (with the notable exception of Gio). This is the point of the rebuild. Love Cammy and Stemp, but they are unlikely to improve, while Monahan, Colbourne, Bouma should (as well as, arguably, Jones and Glencross for injury reasons) should improve.
Not expecting much this year, but I think they could be a little better.

[Jacks]

I see it as a wash but everything will depend on injuries. If we can get a full season (or at least close) out of Glencross, Gio and Wideman that will make up for the offense we lost right there. Gaudreau is a bit of a wildcard too, if he makes the team and proves he can handle the NHL he should drive additional offense.

Edit: Plus Jones could easily put in 10-20 goals, Setoguchi could easily have a better year now that his career is on the line, etc.

[Frank MetaMusil]

It's going to be tough for the Flames to duplicate the season season series wins vs teams like LA and Chicago again this season. On the other hand, if the Flames can win more one goal games (better shot without Berra and butler) they will improve on last season's totals. The real key is to start consistently beating Vancouver. Those points will help as well.

[killer_carlson]

D is a huge upgrade. 2 NHL defenceman, including one with legit top 4 on many teams, for 2 guys who are not NHL defencemen.

But make no mistake, we are not a strong team. Glad Hartley is around to make these guys work.

[sketchyt]

Goaltending lost a lot of games last year. Berra was barely ahl calibre and Ramo needed a few months to acclimate to the nhl.

That alone is a massive difference. I think the rest is a wash.

[badger89]

I hope not. I don't like the idea of taking, but if there ever was a time it's now. A top 3 pick in this draft should land a franchise player. We can start improving next year, but hopefully we'll drop a couple more games this year.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by badger89

I hope not. I don't like the idea of taking, but if there ever was a time it's now. A top 3 pick in this draft should land a franchise player. We can start improving next year, but hopefully we'll drop a couple more games this year.

I'd rather the team tries to win and whatever pick they end up with is fine. Hartley might be on the chopping block if Burke can't take the losing. The Flames won't pick top 3.