Ring Road To Nowhere

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Strathcona Street and bridge over Sarcee Trail appear to be a road and bridge to no where.

Future development on Tsuu Tina lands.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Hesla

There is huge demand right now for it. It will also keep many trucks off of Glenmore Trail.

There really isn't huge demand for it though. As pointed out it the SSP thread, this thing is ultimately planned to be the size of the 401 in Toronto! There will never be any need for that in that area.

Seriously guys, read the SSP thread for why this is a bad idea.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

That's fair. Something certainly needs to be done. But is a potential 16 lane freeway the answer?

That's a bit of a stretch, they are adding space for future expansion, something people years later would be damning them for if they didn't allow for it now.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Is there even a need for this road? I'm perfectly fine taking 14th to Glenmore to get west of the city. Granted, I don't work out that way, so I'm never taking those roads during rush hour

I call BS. 14th Street south of Glenmore is a complete cluster in both directions even outside of rush hour these days. This is all desperately needed.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

That's fair. Something certainly needs to be done. But is a potential 16 lane freeway the answer?

For the future transportation health of Calgary, yes it is.

[Bunk]

Personally, I think the premise of a future 16 lanes is insane. The rest of the ring road is based on 8 lane ultimate, but this section is 16 because of some future theoretical second ring road and the idea there will be no other option in the SW further out, so this needs double capacity. Nuts. Neither necessary, nor desirable. Look at the span of the bridge decks as a result. Massively overbuilt and unnecessarily expensive. Not a comment against having this leg of the ring road built, but on the absurd design of it, and premise underlying it. The segments at sensitive environmental areas are also really intrusive and poorly designed.

We spend a lot of time fretting about government cell phone bills and use of aircraft, but this is real, tangible waste - in the hundreds of millions.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Personally, I think the premise of a future 16 lanes is insane. The rest of the ring road is based on 8 lane ultimate, but this section is 16 because of some future theoretical second ring road and the idea there will be no other option in the SW further out, so this needs double capacity. Nuts. Neither necessary, nor desirable. Look at the span of the bridge decks as a result. Massively overbuilt and unnecessarily expensive. Not a comment against having this leg of the ring road built, but on the absurd design of it, and premise underlying it. The segments at sensitive environmental areas are also really intrusive and poorly designed.

We spend a lot of time fretting about government cell phone bills and use of aircraft, but this is real, tangible waste - in the hundreds of millions.

Wow, someone tries to plan ahead for once for this city's infrastructure, and this is the reaction we get.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Personally, I think the premise of a future 16 lanes is insane. The rest of the ring road is based on 8 lane ultimate, but this section is 16 because of some future theoretical second ring road and the idea there will be no other option in the SW further out, so this needs double capacity. Nuts. Neither necessary, nor desirable. Look at the span of the bridge decks as a result. Massively overbuilt and unnecessarily expensive. Not a comment against having this leg of the ring road built, but on the absurd design of it, and premise underlying it. The segments at sensitive environmental areas are also really intrusive and poorly designed.

We spend a lot of time fretting about government cell phone bills and use of aircraft, but this is real, tangible waste - in the hundreds of millions.

Part of what I don't understand is why they are building bridges designed for decades down the road, when, even if they become needed at that time, the bridges will be replacement age anyways.

So many other factors might alter the future need for vehicles.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Wow, someone tries to plan ahead for once for this city's infrastructure, and this is the reaction we get.

I'm all for planning ahead, but this is massive overkill. Freeways have an approximate lane capacity of 2300 vehicles per hour. 16 lanes gives you a 24 hour capacity of over 880,000 vehicles. Crowchild and Deerfoot, which are much more centrally located and will always have higher demand than the western edge of the city, which will not grow much further because it's hemmed in (Growth will be North, South and East), each carry about an eighth to a quarter of this.

The busiest segment of the current ring road at Shaganappi carries 63,000 vehicles (which 4 lanes can easily handle free flow).

[burn_this_city]

The overbuilding explains the ridiculous price tag that has been bandied about. I agree that 16 lanes is excessive, especially when the widest parts of the I5 in California are only that wide for short segments.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I'm all for planning ahead, but this is massive overkill. Freeways have an approximate lane capacity of 2300 vehicles per hour. 8 lanes gives you a 24 hour capacity of over 440,000 vehicles. Crowchild and Deerfoot, which are much more centrally located and will always have higher demand than the western edge of the city, which will not grow much further because it's hemmed in (Growth will be North, South and East), each carry about a quarter to half of this.

The busiest segment of the current ring road at Shaganappi carries 63,000 vehicles (which 4 lanes can easily handle free flow).

How many decades did it take just to get to this land? For once we can plan ahead and reserve some of it for the future and this second theoretical ring road, because it's highly unlikely we'll get another parcel of land from the Tsuu T'ina.

[shermanator]

I'm definately biased in that I will never ever drive this road, but I think that $5B would be much better spent in building a North Central / South East LRT line.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by shermanator

I'm definately biased in that I will never ever drive this road, but I think that $5B would be much better spent in building a North Central / South East LRT line.

Or at the very least trim it down a bit and put aside $1B for said LRT line? 16 lanes is huge! Some of those interchanges look like they're bigger than entire communities or even the entire downtown! Nuts!

[Joborule]

It's overkill now, but when the outer ring road gets built, and Tisu Tina is still controls the land ( which is most likely will be the case), then those lanes are gonna be needed so that portion of the ring road can properly function dual jobs.

[DoubleK]

I live in the deep SW and will benefit greatly from this road.

If they decide to not build part of it, it should be the 'west' part from Glenmore to TCH. That is already served by other routes.

The SW portion is desperately needed as has been pointed out by others.

[Burninator]

Maybe I am biased but I think the $5 billion should go towards building a private road for me so I can drive to and from work by myself and occasionally to my friends house way in the north.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I live in the deep SW and will benefit greatly from this road.

If they decide to not build part of it, it should be the 'west' part from Glenmore to TCH. That is already served by other routes.

The SW portion is desperately needed as has been pointed out by others.

The Glenmore to TCH portion could probably be simplified quite a bit while upgrading highway 8 and 22 to serve as a "ring road". TCH from Stoney to highway 22 is a brutal stretch as is.

Extending Stoney to Glenmore would be great although a small capacity road would suffice if 8 and 22 were higher capacity.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

There really isn't huge demand for it though. As pointed out it the SSP thread, this thing is ultimately planned to be the size of the 401 in Toronto! There will never be any need for that in that area.

Seriously guys, read the SSP thread for why this is a bad idea.

How many roads are there in Calgary right now that people are cursing because they weren't built with future expansion in mind?

As someone pointed out in that thread, one likely reason for planning this so large is that they're building over Reserve land and it took 50 years of negotiation with the Tsuu T'ina just to finally get this far. When it comes time to expand, whether that's 20, 50, or 100 years from now, the land will be available and they won't have to go back to the table.

[GreenLantern2814]

I have felt for a long time that I would rather drive 35 minutes while constantly moving than spend 25 minutes in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic.

Stoney Trail is the best road this city has ever produced. I use it every day and I can recall one instance where traffic backed up. It resulted in a 5-minute delay, and even that was irritating.

If money was no object, nobody would have a problem with this. Is there a project in particular that is of more potential benefit to more people than a fully-functional ring road? If there is, is it being directly underfunded because of the road's completion?

If you say C-train extensions, I'll agree that they are as necessary to the long-term health of Calgary. I'll also say it'll get done eventually, and the only way it gets done quicker is for us to finish the goddamn ring road first.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Joborule

It's overkill now, but when the outer ring road gets built, and Tisu Tina is still controls the land ( which is most likely will be the case), then those lanes are gonna be needed so that portion of the ring road can properly function dual jobs.

Once the Ring Road is built, at that point the land that is directly built on (i.e. Road) will be under the government control.