I think Israeli settlements in the West Bank are reprehensible and sound the death knell for Israel in the long term, that said they have nothing to do with Gaza or Hamas, if the PLO were firing rockets out of the West Bank I actually would agree with the self defence argument, in Gaza Hamas are just being #######s sacrificing the lives of their people in order to effectively fund raise and line their own pockets outside of Gaza with the Saudis.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you seem to be saying that rockets fired from the West bank are ok since that's where the settlements are being built. here's the thing though, whatever happens in the West Bank directly affects Gaza and all Palestinians because it means less of a state for them. I think why the rockets get more attention is that it's very visual. However, building settlements is just as much, if not more, an act of war.
Rockets fired from either are stupid and pointless, they do nothing to actually change the situation for the better, they reduce the chances for a moderate Israeli government, they get Palestinians killed pointlessly, and under these particular circumstances those deaths are on Hamas's hands.
The best that the Palestinians will ever get in the foreseeable future is what they have now, it might not be fair but such is life, the more they fight Israel the more they lose, the easier it is for the extreme right in Israel to justify settlements etc.
The best for the average Palestinians is for them to accept the situation as it exists and get on with creating what they can in what they have, I'm not saying that is fair but it is as good as it will ever get for them.
As for rockets being 'ok', I'm old school about war, I don't believe war has rules or morality, I see no difference between either side, if Hamas wants (and they do) a war, I have no problem with their 'side' getting blown up, or the Israelis, each population voted for the murdering ass wipes in charge, each population reaps as they sow.
Sorry, could you clarify this point. Are you talking about the West Bank / Settlement situation? Or are you talking about Gaza / Hamas?
Both, there is nothing that the Palestinians can do anywhere to affect Israel by force.
It's the sad stupidity of the Palestinian cause that they think the rest of the world cares about them or that Israel cares about the rest of the world.
The Arab world doesn't give a crap about the Palestinians other than using them as a convenient political tool. In fact the rest of the Arab world conspires to keep the average Palestinian in abject misery in order to keep that political tool going.
The last thing anybody there wants on either side is a solution.
Rockets fired from either are stupid and pointless, they do nothing to actually change the situation for the better, they reduce the chances for a moderate Israeli government, they get Palestinians killed pointlessly, and under these particular circumstances those deaths are on Hamas's hands.
The best that the Palestinians will ever get in the foreseeable future is what they have now, it might not be fair but such is life, the more they fight Israel the more they lose, the easier it is for the extreme right in Israel to justify settlements etc.
The best for the average Palestinians is for them to accept the situation as it exists and get on with creating what they can in what they have, I'm not saying that is fair but it is as good as it will ever get for them.
Agreed. The rockets help only one party, israel. The Palestinians fall for the trap each time. And they're never, ever going to get a state. At best, what they'll get are semi-autonomous disjointed pieces of land that'll be labelled as Palestine.
I don't even think the rockets help Israel, I have friends from both sides, the moderates have left, the smart have left, it's like Ireland, all that are left are the violent morons and no country prospers when they are in charge.
Well, it helps in the sense that it provides pretext for invasion which pushes peace talks further down. Also, it provides a great talking point. The journalists can ask how the weather is in Israel and the response from officials will be Hamas,rockets.
Can you really blame people for not trusting Isreal and the U.S.
The Israeli army attacked a U.S Navy ship just for the sole purpose of riling up the U.S to join the war and take over the Arab world.
They killed 34 Americans without a second thought. Their allies, and they stabbed them in the back. And Israel isn't capable of purposely killing innocent civilians when they purposely killed American soldiers?
A great video on the history of Palestine. Watch this video and tell me you don't understand the cause of the Palestinians.
If this happened in Canada I would without a second of hesitation fight and die for my country.
Of course I understand the cause, they got screwed in 49' then again by their own in 67 and 72, and they have screwed themselves comprehensively as well, in the immortal words of Kissinger 'the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity'.
None of this makes any difference now, Israel isn't going anywhere. The best the Palestinians will ever get is what they have now.
At what point does History become history, Washington and Oregon used to be part of Canada, Texas and California used to be part of Mexico. It's been 65 years since Israel was created and Palestine was extinguished, in another 5 or 10 years there will be barely a Jew or Arab will be alive that can remember the events of '49.
As for rockets being 'ok', I'm old school about war, I don't believe war has rules or morality, I see no difference between either side, if Hamas wants (and they do) a war, I have no problem with their 'side' getting blown up, or the Israelis, each population voted for the murdering ass wipes in charge, each population reaps as they sow.
It's not a war, it's an occupation.
One side is controlling the daily living conditions and activities of the other.
Can you really blame people for not trusting Isreal and the U.S.
The Israeli army attacked a U.S Navy ship just for the sole purpose of riling up the U.S to join the war and take over the Arab world.
They killed 34 Americans without a second thought. Their allies, and they stabbed them in the back. And Israel isn't capable of purposely killing innocent civilians when they purposely killed American soldiers?
If you're buying into conspiracy theories like this, then it explains a lot about your viewpoints on the issue.
What he's talking about is the Israel's attack on the USS Liberty, which occurred in the middle of the 1967 Israel/Arab war:
I really don't understand the backwards logic that this intentionally done to get the US to give Israel military support. It really doesn't make sense. If it was a black flag ploy, there would have been much easier ways to pull that off.
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Oh I don't give a crap, the English, like the Canadians and the Israeli's won their respective wars, I'm not handing my house over to the coast Salish anymore than the Israelis are handing over their hard won country to the losers there.
And yes white canada controls the lives of the natives, but if they started lobbing shells over from the res we'd eff them up quick. Call it an occupation if you will, it's no different.
One side is controlling the daily living conditions and activities of the other.
One side has a military and the other doesn't.
You're British, this should be familiar to you.
Hamas has a military, just a really ####ty one. It would be better for Palestinians if they didn't though, then they might actually do something to improve the lives of their people instead of persuading stupid young men to sacrifice themselves and their families for a lost cause.
I really don't understand the backwards logic that this intentionally done to get the US to give Israel military support. It really doesn't make sense. If it was a black flag ploy, there would have been much easier ways to pull that off.
So why were they attacked then? Most of the survivors say they had waived at the Israeli planes before the attack. Watch the survivors talking about the incident. They all believe Israel deliberately attacked the U.S Navy ship.
Tell me why you think that is and what reason Israel would have to kill American citizens.
Here are the stories of the survivors. How anyone can defend this is beyond me. Truly despicable.
