I like Craig Button

[Dion]

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes he would talk to you if you emailed him, I told him I was unhappy with the Stillman/Conroy trade when it happened and his reply to me was that Corey Stillman had never done anything in the playoffs and never will. Didn't that guy win 3 SC? He might have a clue when it comes to prospects but he was a disaster as a GM.

So you'd call a mulligan on the Conroy trade?

Stillman had a hell of a run there when he won two cups in a row with two different teams, and he proved everyone wrong, but still, Conroy was more valuable to the Flames than Stillman was ever going to be.

I'm no big Button fan either, and I didn't like it at the time, but let's not get carried away. That was a great trade for the Flames.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I hate Craig Button. His moves as Flames GM set the franchise back for years.

A good bit of the '04 team had his stamp on, but let's not let obnoxious rants get in the way. Daryl's moves as full time GM did FAR more damage to the organization. He's recovered nicely with 2 Cups in LA. Meanwhile, most of you clowns were getting your hearts fluttering about Pusselius's "skill," and jerking off about what Edmonton & Vancouver were doing do deflect attention from the raw suckage of the Lames over the last decade.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by JD

And not to mention, Button's best move was likely (and ironically) bringing in Darryl Sutter to coach the team.

Wasn't that move all Ken King? I remember him telling the story of flying down to San Jose to meet with Darryl almost immediately after the Sharks fired him.

Once Sutter was hired, most people saw the writing on the wall for Button.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by getbak

Wasn't that move all Ken King? I remember him telling the story of flying down to San Jose to meet with Darryl almost immediately after the Sharks fired him.

Once Sutter was hired, most people saw the writing on the wall for Button.

and once Feaster was hired, most people could see the writing on the wall for Sutter.

and once Burke was hired, ........

[JD]

Originally Posted by getbak

Wasn't that move all Ken King? I remember him telling the story of flying down to San Jose to meet with Darryl almost immediately after the Sharks fired him.

Once Sutter was hired, most people saw the writing on the wall for Button.

I don't know about that. Who could have foreseen Darryl Sutter becoming a GM? He was only a coach up until that point. Certainly Button was in trouble at that point (everyone on the Flames was, the franchise was in shambles) and it was widely understood that this was his final shot at hiring a coach. My recollection is that there was a lot of surprise at Darryl's ascension to General Manager. Not so much surprise at Button's firing (or non-renewal).

As for Ken King doing it all, who knows what level of say Button had in that. Just like we will never know what level of involvement King had with the Sutter regime.

Anyway, my argument in this thread was never that Button was a good GM. I was only trying to dispel that initial comment that he set the team back years and years. The team was headed nowhere and floundering when he arrived and it seemed to be when he left. A couple tweaks and an all-star goalie later, they were a video review from a championship. Button wasn't a total buffoon. Rebuilding the Flames with a limited budget was a difficult task for a rookie GM.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JD

I don't know about that. Who could have foreseen Darryl Sutter becoming a GM? He was only a coach up until that point. Certainly Button was in trouble at that point (everyone on the Flames was, the franchise was in shambles) and it was widely understood that this was his final shot at hiring a coach. My recollection is that there was a lot of surprise at Darryl's ascension to General Manager. Not so much surprise at Button's firing (or non-renewal).

As for Ken King doing it all, who knows what level of say Button had in that. Just like we will never know what level of involvement King had with the Sutter regime.

Anyway, my argument in this thread was never that Button was a good GM. I was only trying to dispel that initial comment that he set the team back years and years. The team was headed nowhere and floundering when he arrived and it seemed to be when he left. A couple tweaks and an all-star goalie later, they were a video review from a championship. Button wasn't a total buffoon. Rebuilding the Flames with a limited budget was a difficult task for a rookie GM.

The way I remember it Sutter was calling the shots soon after he got here and Button was reduced to a figure head.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So you'd call a mulligan on the Conroy trade?

Stillman had a hell of a run there when he won two cups in a row with two different teams, and he proved everyone wrong, but still, Conroy was more valuable to the Flames than Stillman was ever going to be.

I'm no big Button fan either, and I didn't like it at the time, but let's not get carried away. That was a great trade for the Flames.

Where did I say that? I said at the time I was unhappy with the trade, most Flames fans were.

[JD]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where did I say that? I said at the time I was unhappy with the trade, most Flames fans were.

Yup. In retrospect, I love the trade. Cory Stillman was skilled but more of a support guy than a centrepiece. Craig Conroy become a leader on the Flames and spearheaded the culture change that happened. He helped Iginla reach his potential, as much as the media loved to crow that Jarome needed a true #1 centreman.

But I still vividly remember driving to work from lunch when that trade was announced on the radio. I almost drove off the road I was so mad.

[FireGilbert]

Yeah, I don't think many people liked the Conroy trade at the time. It was once again admitting Calgary could not keep their top players and Conroy was not a well known name in the return. Thankfully it all worked out and turned into a good trade. I did like the Turek trade at the time though. It was at least an attempt to remedy the horrible goalie situation and make the team good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. It almost worked too, the start of the 01-02 season was one of the only bright spots in a very dark period of Flames history.

Of course then he extends Turek, the Flames tank, and next season the Savard trade happens. Now I think Button was one of the worst GMs Calgary has ever known. This has to be why some people were skeptical of the Treliving hiring, remembering that Button was also once considered a top young GM prospect.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where did I say that? I said at the time I was unhappy with the trade, most Flames fans were.

And I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to Button now - at this time - in his role as an analyst on TSN. I didn't like his tenure as our GM either, but your anger carrying over to someone saying they like the job he does currently on TSN seems extreme.

It's a lot like downplaying Darryl Sutter's current tenure as a coach because he turned all mad scientist at the end of GM stint here and set the franchise back in the process. Some people make mistakes as GMs and go on to do well in other things. I too like the job Button does on TSN. I don't get your level of contempt.

[FAN]

I don't like Craig Button. I liked him much better when he was on the draft floor and not sitting there with McKenzie and McGuire because Button wouldn't stop talking. His rankings are absolutely insane. Every year his lists are practically useless. Actually, I don't think he even remembers how he ranks the players because he seems to like every prospect and doesn't ever say something like "most scouts have him ranked in the late first but this is a prospect I really like and I would draft him in the top 10." This year he has Sanheim ranked #8 and Vlad Kamenev #12 while a guy like Virtanen is #46 yet on TSN he talked about his high end skill and only had good things to say. Two years ago he had Ryan Murray at #12 and Matt Finn at #9.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

A good bit of the '04 team had his stamp on, but let's not let obnoxious rants get in the way. Daryl's moves as full time GM did FAR more damage to the organization. He's recovered nicely with 2 Cups in LA. Meanwhile, most of you clowns were getting your hearts fluttering about Pusselius's "skill," and jerking off about what Edmonton & Vancouver were doing do deflect attention from the raw suckage of the Lames over the last decade.

Lol! Speaking of 'obnoxious rants'...

Not arguing Darryl was perfect but I don't know how you can call someone out for being opinionated and then write something like that.

[bluloc]

Craig Buttons working at TSN and not running a team for a reason. Imo he's a below average hockey intellectual.

[getbak]

In the 2000-01 season, I had a ticket pack up in the 300 level. The seats were right behind the where the Flames management sits during the games. At the time, they didn't have the curtain that blocks the view of the press box from the seats, so you could see the people walking around the press box.

Any time Button was visible from those seats, the guy in the row in front of me would repeatedly yell out, "PULL THE TRIGGER, CRAIG! PULL THE TRIGGER!" He kept it up for as long as Button was in view.

That will always be my main memory of Craig Button's time as the Flames GM.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where did I say that? I said at the time I was unhappy with the trade, most Flames fans were.

Yeah, I was unhappy with it too, at the time. I was wrong. So was everyone else who believed the same thing. Button wasn't. Now obviously his rationale that he gave you in an email–that Stillman would never do anything in the playoffs–was off, but still...

You seemed to be using that trade as evidence of how crappy a GM he was.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, I was unhappy with it too, at the time. I was wrong. So was everyone else who believed the same thing. Button wasn't. Now obviously his rationale that he gave you in an email–that Stillman would never do anything in the playoffs–was off, but still...

You seemed to be using that trade as evidence of how crappy a GM he was.

He also bought out St. Louis, gave up Giguere for a song, and traded away the #1 centre we desperately needed because the idiot coaching did not like him. There is a reason why Button has never had a sniff of a GM job again. I am not saying the guy can't scout, he obviously knows his prospects but I can never like him after how bad he messed this club up.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Bolded all the needs to be said.

Wasn't Darryl trying to get Toskala, but had to settle for Kipper? Not saying he doesn't deserve credit for the great move, but sometimes things just work out...

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Wasn't Darryl trying to get Toskala, but had to settle for Kipper? Not saying he doesn't deserve credit for the great move, but sometimes things just work out...

That's fair, but you have to apply the same dumb luck argument to any trade he ever made that didn't work out then as well.