Not the bees!

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Buff

So, coles notes please. I'm no up to speed on this business with bees.

Essentially, I understand that we need bees to pollinate our food so we can grow it, and without bees we won't have any food.

What kind of time frame are they looking at for this to happen?

It's a little more complicated than that. Many plants don't need pollination. Some need pollination, but not from bees. Some need pollination from honey bees. Some need pollination from non-honey (typically native north-american) bees. The article is talking specifically about commercial honey bee hives, which are extremely useful and versatile pollinators.
The problem isn't ever going to be scarcity of food in general. There's plenty of arable land, and there are plenty of edible crops with no need for pollination (including many livestock feed crops). It's going to be scarcity of particular types of food that are critical parts of our food industry. There's going to be a real fight between different food producers for control of the existing bee pollinators. In some parts of the US, this is already happening where, for example, carrot producers are complaining that their crops are not being pollinated because of nearby canola fields that the bees are more interested in pollinating. Over time, we may see that pollinated crops are simply grown less, and non-pollinated crops are grown more, the availability of some increase, others decrease, some things go up in price, some things stay more or less the same.

This looks like a pretty good list of pollinated crops. Take particular note of those that have great or essential need for honey bee pollinators. Those are the ones that will be heavily affected:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...inated_by_bees

edit: There are really three solutions here:
One is to solve the problem of what's killing the honey bees.
The second is to prioritize our food supply, so that essential foods get pollinated while relative luxury foods become even more of a luxury. It would be ridiculous if the long-term effect is that the price of green vegetables like broccoli make them unavailable to low income households, as more emphasis is put on pollinating nuts and other non-vital crops.
The third solution, obviously, is Robot bees. (Which I say jokingly, but in fifteen years this might be a viable part of the solution).

[mrdonkey]

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by octothorp

It's a little more complicated than that. Many plants don't need pollination. Some need pollination, but not from bees. Some need pollination from honey bees. Some need pollination from non-honey (typically native north-american) bees. The article is talking specifically about commercial honey bee hives, which are extremely useful and versatile pollinators.
The problem isn't ever going to be scarcity of food in general. There's plenty of arable land, and there are plenty of edible crops with no need for pollination (including many livestock feed crops). It's going to be scarcity of particular types of food that are critical parts of our food industry. There's going to be a real fight between different food producers for control of the existing bee pollinators. In some parts of the US, this is already happening where, for example, carrot producers are complaining that their crops are not being pollinated because of nearby canola fields that the bees are more interested in pollinating. Over time, we may see that pollinated crops are simply grown less, and non-pollinated crops are grown more, the availability of some increase, others decrease, some things go up in price, some things stay more or less the same.

This looks like a pretty good list of pollinated crops. Take particular note of those that have great or essential need for honey bee pollinators. Those are the ones that will be heavily affected:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...inated_by_bees

edit: There are really three solutions here:
One is to solve the problem of what's killing the honey bees.
The second is to prioritize our food supply, so that essential foods get pollinated while relative luxury foods become even more of a luxury. It would be ridiculous if the long-term effect is that the price of green vegetables like broccoli make them unavailable to low income households, as more emphasis is put on pollinating nuts and other non-vital crops.
The third solution, obviously, is Robot bees. (Which I say jokingly, but in fifteen years this might be a viable part of the solution).

All great points. I should also offer that I'm not laying all the blame at the feet of corporations. In fact, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be able to feed the people the world does have right now. Or at least as close as we are doing it right now. The world is vastly overpopulated and that's easily the biggest problem but no one wants to address that, it goes against our very nature.

I'm just so upset that when we see a problem like this, and it is a problem, that we aren't able to act right away. This certain chemical is killing the bees? Get rid of it! Too easy right?

But no, we have to have a whole discussion, and all the people with money or a stake in something have to put out lobbied 'evidence' that contradicts our best minds as the problem gets worse. Just so they can stay at the top of the food chain.

This really needs to stop, we're reaching a pivotal point in environmental issues. We can't have a 20 year discussion on every important topic.

Funny enough we did solve the CFC problem pretty well. Went hard on that almost right out of the gate. What happened to that spirit? Can we do it again? Have the lobbies gotten too big and too powerful?

[octothorp]

Agreed, and unlike many problems, the industry causing the problem and the industry most hurt by the problem are the same (agricultural industry); though different facets of the industry. So there's no excuse for them not to all get on the page and realize that if they don't figure it out, the whole industry will suffer, from growers to chemical manufacturers.
I was watching the Ken Burns documentary on the dust bowl recently, and one thing that really stood out that I hadn't been aware of was how much the community aspect was a factor in changing agricultural processes: groups of farmers getting together and saying that they were going to plant windbelts, rotate fallow fields, etc. Farmers who didn't follow these sorts of practices were ostracized by their fellow farmers. That sort of attitude might be necessary for regions to get together and decide that they're going to avoid certain chemicals, (and in doing so would probably make themselves a more favorable destination for commercial bee keepers who have more power to pick and choose clients). Though with the commercial interest in the industry, I don't know if that sort of grassroots effort would even be possible.

[K1LLswitch]

I support bees.

One of our friends is into the whole farmers market thing and went around asking people to host a bee hive in their yard. He does all the work, and the bees are pretty sweet to look at on a hot day.....how they don't crash into each other is amazing.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by dammage79

This makes the whole Monsanto thing even more precarious.

Monsanto is the most evil company in the world these days.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Azure

Monsanto is the most evil company in the world these days.

When you're trying to patent food sources, yeah yer a pretty evil company. So Bees won't be around to pollenate some foods and Monsanto with be collecting royalties on anyone trying to grow...anything.

[Harry Lime]

A year later, annual bee bump. Good news, everybody!

They have found a large reason for the decline of the bee population.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27980344
The Europeans have already announced a 2 year ban, and as usual we are reacting months ahead of the North Koreans. The best part of the article is when the ready-made 'nuh-uh' scientist refutes all claims of the 4 year study.

The second best part is when a University professor says that the pesticide causing the decline in bee population might actually not be having the effect on the pests that it is supposed to control anyway. We use it excessively, nonetheless.

Huzzah!

[troutman]

What happened to all the gophers? Dad and I don't see them much anymore like we used to.

[Regulator75]

Originally Posted by troutman

What happened to all the gophers? Dad and I don't see them much anymore like we used to.

Over taken by rats?

[killer_carlson]

If I am not mistaken, Alberta is actually one of the largest producers of honey in the entire world. 4th or so.

I think I saw a sign like that in a West Jet departure lounge, or on the wall of one of those tunnel things you walk in to get to or from the terminal and plane.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by troutman

What happened to all the gophers? Dad and I don't see them much anymore like we used to.

I was actually wondering that yesterday. I remember as a kid hunting gophers with my cousin in various fields. I also remember how my mom would always freak out at the sight of gophers (she didn't like them or mice or other similar animals.) The gophers used to be all over the grassy areas on the side of the roadways (especially the big grassy areas around 16th Ave and Deerfoot.)

I almost never see a gopher now.

[Ozy_Flame]

[OutOfTheCube]

So... we haven't figured out a way to pollinate plants with some kind of machine or something? Doesn't that seem like an obvious solution?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

So... we haven't figured out a way to pollinate plants with some kind of machine or something? Doesn't that seem like an obvious solution?

We have . . .

[The Fonz]

There is some good news on this subject. Just last year DuPont was able to register a new insecticide in Canada (maybe North America? I can't remember for sure), Chlorantraniliprole, and in my opinion it's a game changer in the market. Kills pests that harm our crops (armyworms, grasshoppers, etc), while not harming the insects that are beneficial (bees, wasps). Unfortunately the price point on this product is still higher than the other options that are harmful to the beneficial insects, so producers will still gravitate towards the cheaper solution, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see legislation against these pesticides years down the road to limit/eliminate their use. It's just too bad it won't get wheat midge.

Anywhoo... it's a huge product in other parts of the world, and it's popularity is only going to increase. We're on the right track, it's just going to take years to correct the damage that's already been done.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by troutman

What happened to all the gophers? Dad and I don't see them much anymore like we used to.

Roughrider fans took them in as pets. We'll unleash a plague of them on Canada world about 5 years now when they're irrelevant once again.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by troutman

What happened to all the gophers? Dad and I don't see them much anymore like we used to.

They've overtaken the Nanton golf course. Gopher holes everywhere and familes of them running around. Saw a family of them yesterday on the #2 tee box.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I was actually wondering that yesterday. I remember as a kid hunting gophers with my cousin in various fields. I also remember how my mom would always freak out at the sight of gophers (she didn't like them or mice or other similar animals.) The gophers used to be all over the grassy areas on the side of the roadways (especially the big grassy areas around 16th Ave and Deerfoot.)

I almost never see a gopher now.

There's a few that are starting to show up these last few days by the area where I work. They're smaller than usual so I presume they're young. Biggest difference I noticed is that they're running on the roads rather than just meandering on the grass. Not sure why that's the case.

A few more weeks before seeing them in numbers, maybe?

[Daradon]

I live in Chaparral and I see tons of gophers all the time. I think some years have larger pops than others, and that could be for a variety of reasons, but often that one road leading in from 22x looks like a gopher graveyard there are so many trying to run the gauntlet.