Spector - Flames have bigger plans beyond key 2014 draft

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by T@T

Burke (and his new puppet Treliving) and his B.S "earn your check" can fork himselfs IMO.

Burke liked Ward in the AHL, and Treliving didn't. Ward was let go. Yeah, that sounds like he is being a puppet. Please tell me all the things he's done that shows he's not allowed to do anything that Burke doesn't explicitly say he can. Maybe, just maybe, they talk with each other and come up with a good idea together. Maybe they even include the AGMs now. It's weird how that would work. Do you really think Treliving would leave an AGM job he had in Phoenix for a job that he would only be a puppet in Calgary? That doesn't make any sense.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Burke liked Ward in the AHL, and Treliving didn't. Ward was let go. Yeah, that sounds like he is being a puppet.

That's just a case of advanced puppetry

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Your post is self contradictory. You say Burke's draft record is brutal, but Feaster's is equally brutal if not worse. You didn't wholly evaluate Feaster's drafting, and solely based your judgement on the last two years, which is still unproven. Yes our prospect base looks good right now but we can't really tell if they will actually carry their success into the NHL level. If you really want to talk about Feaster, you should look at his drafting record with Tampa, which was awful.

Don't care about Feaster's record prior to Calgary.
The prospects we had in the past mostly sucked from day one.

Burke and Treliving have done nothing of significance so far so no reason to sing their praises yet.

Let's see what happens.

[theoforever]

GM makes more than AGM, so puppet or not this would be a promotion for Treliving.
Plus he could put GM on his resume.
I'm sure if Burke believes strongly about something, he has the final say.
To think otherwise is silly as it implies Edwards had a brain injury and just gave control of his club to a guy with no GM experience and then allowed him to hire two more guys with no AGM experience.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Amount of Burke's ass kissing is amazing.
His draft record is brutal.

Originally Posted by theoforever

Don't care about Feaster's record prior to Calgary.
The prospects we had in the past mostly sucked from day one.

Burke and Treliving have done nothing of significance so far so no reason to sing their praises yet.

Let's see what happens.

Let me wrap my head around your logic- you don't care about Feaster's draft record prior to Calgary and yet you'd bring up Burke's draft record prior to Calgary to support your point?

No one is singing praises, rather most of us are contending people's illogical level of hatred towards Burke when (as you said) he hasn't done much yet with the Flames, so let's not write him off completely either. To sing praises of Burke before he even went through one draft with the Flames is as silly as to hate him and want him gone now.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Let me wrap my head around your logic- you don't care about Feaster's draft record prior to Calgary and yet you'd bring up Burke's draft record prior to Calgary to support your point?

No one is singing praises, rather most of us are contending people's illogical level of hatred towards Burke when (as you said) he hasn't done much yet with the Flames, so let's not write him off completely either. To sing praises of Burke before he even went through one draft with the Flames is as silly as to hate him and want him gone now.

^Got 'em

[theoforever]

You too got nothing.
Nowhere did I say that I hate Burke.
I actually said, wait and see.
There is just no reason yet to kiss Burke's and Treliving's ass.
Only illogical thing is the constant hate against Feaster.
The fact that our prospect pool was just rated as #6 in NHL is encouraging and proves the point that Feaster did some things right.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by theoforever

You too got nothing.

Nowhere did I say that I hate Burke.

I actually said, wait and see.

There is just no reason yet to kiss Burke's and Treliving's ass.

Only illogical thing is the constant hate against Feaster.

The fact that our prospect pool was just rated as #6 in NHL is encouraging and proves the point that Feaster did some things right.

show me the money.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Let me wrap my head around your logic- you don't care about Feaster's draft record prior to Calgary and yet you'd bring up Burke's draft record prior to Calgary to support your point?.

My logic is clear. Feaster can be judged on his draft record in Calgary in terms of prospect pool depth. Yes, too early to come to conclusion at NHL level.
Prior drafting with Tampa has no effect on anything.

Burke/Treliving don't have Flame record, so past history is the only record that we can examine. Thus, the concern about direction.

If Flames had a long history of good drafting I would not care, but Burke fired a guy that just improved this aspect of the organization.
Even if Feaster just allowed his scouting stuff to do their job, it was a good move. Is the new regime going to overrule the scouts? Is our drafting going to get worse again? Who knows, but suddenly there is a new element if risk.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by strombad

show me the money.

Layoff the drugs, you may be able to get unstuck.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by theoforever

You too got nothing.
Nowhere did I say that I hate Burke.
I actually said, wait and see.
There is just no reason yet to kiss Burke's and Treliving's ass.
Only illogical thing is the constant hate against Feaster.
The fact that our prospect pool was just rated as #6 in NHL is encouraging and proves the point that Feaster did some things right.

You don't seem to understand what my point is. I'm not hating on Feaster. So let me break it down very simple bitsized information in the manner that you seem to type in:

POINT ONE

This:

Originally Posted by theoforever

[Burke's] draft record is brutal.

Originally Posted by theoforever

25 years of lost trades, non existed player development and one of the worst draft records in history of hockey.

Is contradictory to this:

Originally Posted by theoforever

Don't care about Feaster's record prior to Calgary.

Why?
Because you brought up Burke's drafting history support your point but completely disregarded Feaster's drafting history which is much worse than Burke's. If you want to make a point comparing Feaster to Burke at least make the parameters consistent.

POINT TWO

This:

Originally Posted by theoforever

At least Feaster was smart enough to let his people draft some good prospects.

Originally Posted by theoforever

The fact that our prospect pool was just rated as #6 in NHL is encouraging and proves the point that Feaster did some things right.

Is contradictory to this:

Originally Posted by theoforever

I actually said, wait and see.

Originally Posted by theoforever

There is just no reason yet to kiss Burke's and Treliving's ass.

Why?
Because you tell us to wait and see and yet you would go on to say that just cause some people ranked our prospect pool as relatively high that is somehow PROVES that Feaster drafted right when you haven't even waited to see how any of our prospects have performed in the NHL besides Monahan. My whole point is that no one here is ass kissing Burke, we are all in "wait and see mode" but we are contending with people who don't want to wait and see and want to write off Burke completely.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Layoff the drugs, you may be able to get unstuck.

[theoforever]

If I wanted to say 'your constant hate against Feaster', I would have said so.
However, I said 'constant hate against Feaster' which has been prevalent in many threads. You are not that important.

I'm judging Feaster on his Flames record and clearly a better pool of prospects than anything that we have seen in the last decade.
Burke doesn't have Flames record so prior drafting has been introduced.

You fail to understand that the two records can be compared without creating a logical fallacy. It just takes a little stretching of your limited supply of brain cells to understand.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Scouts draft, not GM's. This thread has gotten silly.

Show me the money?

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Layoff the drugs, you may be able to get unstuck.

Originally Posted by theoforever

However, I said 'constant hate against Feaster' which has been prevalent in many threads. You are not that important.

Originally Posted by theoforever

It just takes a little stretching of your limited supply of brain cells to understand.

First of all, lay off the insults. No one made it personal against you so don't act like you're above anyone unless you're actively trying to become a lightning rod for criticism on this forum.

Secondly.

Originally Posted by theoforever

You fail to understand that the two records can be compared without creating a logical fallacy.

Here is your logical fallacy:

Originally Posted by theoforever

Feaster can be judged on his draft record in Calgary in terms of prospect pool depth. Yes, too early to come to conclusion at NHL level. Prior drafting with Tampa has no effect on anything.

Originally Posted by theoforever

[Burke's] draft record is brutal.
When comes to Treliving same thing, one would think he is a genius of a GM, the truth is, he is a rookie.

If you want to make the point that Feaster's prior drafting in Tampa has no effect, then the same holds true for Burke. Therefore there was no reason for you to have brought up Burke's drafting record.

If you really insist that it's logical then there's another problem: you are comparing two records, one with a sample size of two draft years and one with a sample size of 13 draft years. And since you're so smart and I apparently possess some sort of neuron deficiency that prevents me from regenerating brain cells (and yes brain cells do regenerate), maybe you can tell me which one actually has numbers and which one is still to early to judge.

You were wrong from the moment you used to word "prove". Feaster hasn't proved anything yet. I think most of us would be more than willing to credit Feaster if the prospects he drafted turn out to be successful (which would be fantastic). Yes you're right in that the prospect pool is deeper than it has ever been, but it won't mean jack s*** if none turn out to be successful in the NHL. Granted, chances are high and I really hope Feaster showed that Burke made the wrong decision in firing him based on the drafts he made, but as of right now, it's not even close to "proving" anything about Feaster yet.

[djsFlames]

Gaudreau wasn't just a target player, but THE top and most highlighted player in his entire league, full of 18-25 year olds and some pretty big ones at that. You can bet was head hunted most nights by opposing players, and had to take hits. He's obviously learned how to look out for himself when in the spotlight. Not to say he won't need to make adjustments going to the next level, but he won't a deer in the headlights out there.. He's already used to it.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Scouts draft, not GM's.

You got to wonder how much a GM's "guidance" or "direction" or "instructions" actually affect the work of the scouts. You see a lot of GMs making little changes to the scouting staff but they always talk about improving the team's drafting by essentially communicating with the scouts more.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Also useless because he's not the GM.

That's a good mantra to repeat, but if think that Burke is not going to have major input in every hockey decision made, then maybe T@T wasn't wrong in his summation. Burke just hired an inexperienced GM and let him full his staff with inexperienced people. Of course he's going to have a major say in decisions affecting the team. He's not going to let a bunch of guys with no proven NHL chops run the rebuild. Burke may not be pulling the strings, but I would take a close look at Treliving and his subordinates when they talk. You may see Burke's arm planted in their backsides and his moving at the same time. Burke has always been, and will always remain, a control freak.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by theoforever

You too got nothing.
Nowhere did I say that I hate Burke.
I actually said, wait and see.
There is just no reason yet to kiss Burke's and Treliving's ass.
Only illogical thing is the constant hate against Feaster.
The fact that our prospect pool was just rated as #6 in NHL is encouraging and proves the point that Feaster did some things right.

Our prospect pool is 6th which is great. Wouldn't one expect a team that missed the playoffs 5 years in a row to have a pretty strong prospect pool?

It is pretty easy to be excited about the new management team considering the last group made the franchise a laughing stock amongst many outsiders and media

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Scouts draft, not GM's. This thread has gotten silly.

Show me the money?

Scouts evaluate and collect data. GM's have the final say on whose name gets called. That is why GM's and AGM's do their own scouting trips to get eyes on players. Scouts also don't define the philosophy of they type of player the team will have interest in. Scouts play an important role in identifying potential players, but the decision maker is still the GM.

Show ME the money? (I don't get this.)