Toronto collapses again, still suck.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I dont agree, having a 31 year old Cammalleri does not help your hockey team if he is unsigned. If he walks you get nothing. A 2nd round pick is better then that. Burke probably could have ate salary in a deal to get a 2nd or better. If he does not resign him, it was just another lost draft pick.
Players like Giordano, Hudler, Wideman and Cammalleri are at their peak in value right now and should be used to get younger players. The problem is that playoff revenue is millions of dollars a game and most owners want to make them. They would not want to trade these players because it basically axes any hope for a few year. I know you guys probably love Giordano but the massive return he could get right now is the best option IMO for the Flames to do. your looking at a 1st round pick, good prospect, and roster player.

That would be very fool hardy. You don't trade that kind of leadership when bringing in youth. A team is much more than a collection of players

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I dont agree, having a 31 year old Cammalleri does not help your hockey team if he is unsigned. If he walks you get nothing. A 2nd round pick is better then that. Burke probably could have ate salary in a deal to get a 2nd or better. If he does not resign him, it was just another lost draft pick.
Players like Giordano, Hudler, Wideman and Cammalleri are at their peak in value right now and should be used to get younger players. The problem is that playoff revenue is millions of dollars a game and most owners want to make them. They would not want to trade these players because it basically axes any hope for a few year. I know you guys probably love Giordano but the massive return he could get right now is the best option IMO for the Flames to do. your looking at a 1st round pick, good prospect, and roster player.

Ha... now you've lost me. But you don't seem to be getting the point, which is at some value in return it's better keeping the player. Can't get rid of everyone because what kind of culture would that build?

[maxpower29]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That would be very fool hardy. You don't trade that kind of leadership when bringing in youth. A team is much more than a collection of players

I guess you guys know your team more then I do, Im just really looking at a stats sheet. Somewhere the flames need to pile up picks though I think

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I guess you guys know your team more then I do, Im just really looking at a stats sheet. Somewhere the flames need to pile up picks though I think

Giordano pretty much was the Flames this season. Without him we'd have been blown out significantly more often. The other guys yeah trade, Gio no, the effect his leadership has is worth paying for for a long time.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I guess you guys know your team more then I do, Im just really looking at a stats sheet. Somewhere the flames need to pile up picks though I think

Welcome Max. But sorry, Gio was incredible this year and has leadership qualities that will benefit this club for years. I agree with most of your points except re Phaneuf.

[maxpower29]

I will say one thing about you Flames fans. Your very fortunate that your not a part of probably the stupidest group on sports fans in the world. Sometimes I cant take listening to leafs fans talk about hockey, because they make myself look stupid just saying I am a Leafs fan as well. 50-75% of leafs fans (maybe more) are so delusional when it comes to hockey.
Its so frustrating to not be able to have a competent person to talk hockey with when your very passionate about a certain team. It must be frustrating to fans like you guys as well because I see it in Habs fans as well and I want to scream.
All and all good luck at the draft and the 14-15 season!

[Brannigans Law]

seeing "Raptors square" on TSN before the Raptors game really diminishes what leaf square actually was. It was basically just flames central with no roof.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I dont agree, having a 31 year old Cammalleri does not help your hockey team if he is unsigned. If he walks you get nothing. A 2nd round pick is better then that. Burke probably could have ate salary in a deal to get a 2nd or better. If he does not resign him, it was just another lost draft pick.

I seriously can't stand Burke as I think he's a phony dink but I agree with him not taking trash for Cammy in a trade.

Stand your ground for futures!

[strombad]

Originally Posted by T@T

I seriously can't stand Burke as I think he's a phony dink but I agree with him not taking trash for Cammy in a trade.

Stand your ground for futures!

Whoa whoa whoa, wait, you don't like Burke?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Burke really wasn't in Toronto very long, was he? Seems to have made an impact, both for better and for worse. I do, however keep mistaking the moves of different Toronto GMs for his handiwork. Is there a site with a breakdown of all Burke's actions while at the helm?

BigTuna & maxpower29: what is your honest assessment of Burke's positive & negative moves in T.O.? It's interesting to see if he'll have the same impact in Calgary (before he hires his eventual replacement).

I liked Burke's moves a lot. It's ironic, the man who got more crap than anyone for a trade, in retrospect, made so many great ones.

An underrated move that doesn't get the hate it deserves was when he signed Martin Gerber when the team was already out of the playoffs and they had CUJO/Pogge to send them spirilling down the standings. Instead, he signs Gerber for no reason, and he plays better than any Leaf goalie and their draft pick got worse.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Burke joined the Leafs at the end of in November 2008, less than two months after Schenn made his debut. Certainly the Leafs already burned a year of Schenn's contract by the time Burke came aboard, but it is undeniable that Burke was the GM for virtually all of Schenn's career in Toronto. If the player was damaged by being rushed, Burke bears much of the responsibility for that.

I think the biggest problem isn't Schenn being "Rushed", it's that he's so slow and has very little talent.

[Tinordi]

Maybe this is hindsight talking but I never understood the draft hype for Schenn. Why was a defensive defenceman prospect so highly ranked in the first place?

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Maybe this is hindsight talking but I never understood the draft hype for Schenn. Why was a defensive defenceman prospect so highly ranked in the first place?

Compared to Foote, had some untapped offensive potential and was supposed to be an absolute rock on the backend. Also was coming out of Kelowna where they produced guys like Hamhuis and Weber in recent years. Also played well at the U20 world juniors. Probably would have been a better player had he spent another year in juniors polishing his game.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by T@T

I seriously can't stand Burke as I think he's a phony dink but I agree with him not taking trash for Cammy in a trade.

Stand your ground for futures!

naturally i know nothing of how the inner workings of the NHL GM circle works, but i didn't quite get this concept burke stated after not trading cammalleri.

is the GM's ability to trade an asset based (as a majority of all factors) on the state of the market at that given time (ie. is there a large market for the kind of asset you are trying to move which will lead to the standard supply&demand environment)? If the market is hot for defenceman, and you have a defenceman this is an asset you're willing to move, i think the rules of supply&demand will impact the return more than the GM's precedence or history.

I might be out to lunch on this, but i would imagine a GMs history will have very little value on what another GM is willing to give up as far as value goes.

If the market/supply&demand at the deadline (ie. lot's of scoring wingers on the market) well then i would have just fine in burke getting whatever he could for cammalleri.

My fear since then was that burke's pride/fear of a poor decision visibility would lead to the flames signing cammalleri at any cost this offseason. However, uptil now, he's been saying all the right things in that they have an offer but aren't willing to budge much off from there.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I will say one thing about you Flames fans. Your very fortunate that your not a part of probably the stupidest group on sports fans in the world. Sometimes I cant take listening to leafs fans talk about hockey, because they make myself look stupid just saying I am a Leafs fan as well. 50-75% of leafs fans (maybe more) are so delusional when it comes to hockey.
Its so frustrating to not be able to have a competent person to talk hockey with when your very passionate about a certain team. It must be frustrating to fans like you guys as well because I see it in Habs fans as well and I want to scream.
All and all good luck at the draft and the 14-15 season!

to be fair, as a longtime leaf hater, i was sort of surprised at my misconceptions of the fanbase after living here in toronto for the past decade (damn time flies).

I find most fans are fairly negative/realistic about the team and the state of the franchise. The media here is like wildfire though. The team wins a game or two and the media puts so much hype in the team. As soon as the team falters and lose a game or two the media just hammers them till no end. The fans are one hell of a rollercoaster due to the "big headline" news all the media (tsn/sportsnet/cbc/etc) push out in order to get more people on their site/channel/stations.

I think the leafs biggest problem is that they need some strong leadership in the locker room that is able to not let the media rollercoaster affect the team itself. They are just too young, and their leaders are not the kind that demand respect and a following. No disrespect to phaneuf/kessel, but they are not the kind of players to provide the veteran leadership needed on this young team, in the crazy toronto market.

everyteam has it's highs and lows in a season i just find that the leafs highs and lows are so extreme that they just take a life of its own. It is no surprise that this team has had such brutal collapses over the past 5 years. Even when thigns go well (ie. leafs coming back ffrom a pretty solid roadtrip to the extremely tough west coast and suddenly feeling so high about themselves that they forgot to show up for week's after and was essentially the start of their demise).

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by bubbsy;4735593[B

]to be fair, as a longtime leaf hater, i was sort of surprised at my misconceptions of the fanbase after living here in toronto for the past decade[/B] (damn time flies).

I find most fans are fairly negative/realistic about the team and the state of the franchise. The media here is like wildfire though. The team wins a game or two and the media puts so much hype in the team. As soon as the team falters and lose a game or two the media just hammers them till no end. The fans are one hell of a rollercoaster due to the "big headline" news all the media (tsn/sportsnet/cbc/etc) push out in order to get more people on their site/channel/stations.

I think the leafs biggest problem is that they need some strong leadership in the locker room that is able to not let the media rollercoaster affect the team itself. They are just too young, and their leaders are not the kind that demand respect and a following. No disrespect to phaneuf/kessel, but they are not the kind of players to provide the veteran leadership needed on this young team, in the crazy toronto market.

everyteam has it's highs and lows in a season i just find that the leafs highs and lows are so extreme that they just take a life of its own. It is no surprise that this team has had such brutal collapses over the past 5 years. Even when thigns go well (ie. leafs coming back ffrom a pretty solid roadtrip to the extremely tough west coast and suddenly feeling so high about themselves that they forgot to show up for week's after and was essentially the start of their demise).

Most fans outside Toronto do that. They have no idea how negative Leaf fans & the media is. When I read/hear from fans outside Toronto what homers the media is in Toronto I laugh.

[nik-]

My uncles are Leafs fans. They're fully in acceptance that they'll never see them win while they're alive. I don't really know any Leafs fans that think the team is anything but garbage.

Except BigTuna

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I think the biggest problem isn't Schenn being "Rushed", it's that he's so slow and has very little talent.

He consistently said he would never trade him because he tabbed Schenn to be a cornerstone of the franchise and the future captain of the team. He added extra pressure on a kid who for a time was the franchise's shining light for the future in a hockey mad market.

[dissentowner]

Phil Kessel's tweet during the SC playoffs

[MrMastodonFarm]

So what?

He's enjoying time with friends, big whoop.