What Flames Face Buyout at End of Season?

[Street Pharmacist]

I would add the why question as well. To test the reality of using a buyout, imagine you are the GM and you have to pitch this expense to the owners:

You: Hiya guys, we have to buy out players A and B.

Them: Ok, but what is the advantage to us doing that?

You: Ummmm.....

[Vinny01]

Only options I see are Wideman and Jones but I don't see the flames using a buyout with the cap space they have. SOB maybe but at 1 year $2M left might as well keep him.

I hope Burke trades for a bad contract that is eligible for a compliance buyout from the Habs, Flyers, Leafs and get a good asset in return for buying that player out.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I wouldn't lose hope on Wideman yet. I think he didn't have a very good year due to injuries. I hope he racks up some points next year. RW depth is bad, and Jones has decent size, he's alright for a third line RWer.

No reason to buyout anybody, we still need to reach the cap floor. If anything, we should be overpaying for another defenseman if Butler isn't coming back.

[Erick Estrada]

I think Burke said in the past he would try move O'Brien so he could continue with his career elsewhere but that's probably not going to happen in a hockey deal so it wouldn't surprise me if they buy him out otherwise O'Brien is looking at spending next season with the Heat.

Jones looks like the obvious case here as $8 million for two seasons is going to be tough to stomach when you consider what he brings to the table which is bottom 6 skill when he's healthy. Not sure it's going to happen but he's probably the most likely candidate after O'Brien. That Tangs trade was a waste of money for the Flames and in hindsight Feaster would have been better off just buying out Tangs if he wanted to get rid of him as he ended up taking more salary back for two plugs.

[UKflames]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I hope Burke trades for a bad contract that is eligible for a compliance buyout from the Habs, Flyers, Leafs and get a good asset in return for buying that player out.

People keep going on about trading for a bad contract and getting an asset as part of the deal, we haven't seen any of these types of deals this year despite a lot of teams being up against the cap. I think this is a hope that a lot of fans have but actually GM's just won't do it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by UKflames

People keep going on about trading for a bad contract and getting an asset as part of the deal, we haven't seen any of these types of deals this year despite a lot of teams being up against the cap. I think this is a hope that a lot of fans have but actually GM's just won't do it.

For the most part that talk has been driven largely by media looking to make up things to talk about and a small handful of GM's in position to accept bad deals. Problem is that there seems to be no common ground between the teams like the Flames that can take on bad deals and how much teams up at the cap are willing to give up to rid themselves of bad deals. Seems like GM's are having a tough time attaching a value of accepting a bad contract and there's simply been no movement on either side.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Burke said in the past he would try move O'Brien so he could continue with his career elsewhere but that's probably not going to happen in a hockey deal so it wouldn't surprise me if they buy him out otherwise O'Brien is looking at spending next season with the Heat.

Jones looks like the obvious case here as $8 million for two seasons is going to be tough to stomach when you consider what he brings to the table which is bottom 6 skill when he's healthy. Not sure it's going to happen but he's probably the most likely candidate after O'Brien. That Tangs trade was a waste of money for the Flames and in hindsight Feaster would have been better off just buying out Tangs if he wanted to get rid of him as he ended up taking more salary back for two plugs.

I see what you're saying about Jones, but how does paying him anyways and him not playing help? I don't see a single advantage to a team that is so far from the cap to buy someone out. Send him down then. Unless we need contract space, but I don't believe we do

[Anduril]

I can't see either Jones or Wideman being bought out whatsoever. Both have are a commodity to the team, even with the numerous negatives they also carry. Wideman is the only the only RH defenseman, still able to work the PP as the shot from the point and otherwise can be acceptable at best defensively (at times) in a top 4 position. Nothing wrong with continuing to feed him the easy offensive minutes when you have Gio Brodie who are able to handle top lines.

Jones has slowly been getting things together and could have had a better showing were it not for injury. For a team that's lacking size especially at the wings, having a RH shot who is also a large body in front of the net is something most of us would agree we'd like to look for in the offseason. Luckily or unluckily we already have that in Jones.

This team still needs players and there's not enough addition by subtraction by either player to make it worth it to buyout the contracts.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Anduril

I can't see either Jones or Wideman being bought out whatsoever. Both have are a commodity to the team, even with the numerous negatives they also carry. Wideman is the only the only RH defenseman, still able to work the PP as the shot from the point and otherwise can be acceptable at best defensively (at times) in a top 4 position. Nothing wrong with continuing to feed him the easy offensive minutes when you have Gio Brodie who are able to handle top lines.

Jones has slowly been getting things together and could have had a better showing were it not for injury. For a team that's lacking size especially at the wings, having a RH shot who is also a large body in front of the net is something most of us would agree we'd like to look for in the offseason. Luckily or unluckily we already have that in Jones.

This team still needs players and there's not enough addition by subtraction by either player to make it worth it to buyout the contracts.

Just adding to your post, these guys bring us RH depth. It sounds silly, but the way you hold your stick can be both advantageous and disadvantageous. Our problem is we have too many lefties. Nothing wrong with having a lot of lefties, but our PP could be better with Wideman, or maybe another RH shot in the lineup. We lost Stemps, so we need to find another RWer, or a RH shot (ideally Downie or Vrbata).

Also, I think we can all agree that the Flames were one of the worst teams in regards to injuries. Wideman and Jones are and still are a part of that injury problem that we continue to have. I wonder what our record would have been with less injuries and with Hartley's worth ethic (emphasizing Gio's and even Russell's absence).

If anyone was to be bought out, it would be SOB, but he only has a year left on his contract, so no point really. We don't have any outrageous contracts either. Wideman and Jones' contracts I suppose can be, but they are helping us hit the cap floor.

[Jacks]

Assuming that:
1) Knight and Baertschi make the team next year.
2) We sign Colborne (1.5M?), Bouma (750K?) and Ortio (1.75M?)
3) At least 1 other rookie makes the team at less than 1M, example Granlund.

That leaves needing to spend at least 5.5M for a winger and a defenseman and that assumes we have O'Brien's cap hit. If we buy out Jones that leaves us needing to spend at least 9.5M on 2 wingers and a defenseman. It doesn't make sense to buy out Jones unless we can land at least one big name free agent like Jagr or Stastny.

[Scoutski]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Assuming that:
1) Knight and Baertschi make the team next year.
2) We sign Colborne (1.5M?), Bouma (750K?) and Ortio (1.75M?)
3) At least 1 other rookie makes the team at less than 1M, example Granlund.

That leaves needing to spend at least 5.5M for a winger and a defenseman and that assumes we have O'Brien's cap hit. If we buy out Jones that leaves us needing to spend at least 9.5M on 2 wingers and a defenseman. It doesn't make sense to buy out Jones unless we can land at least one big name free agent like Jagr or Stastny.

Bouma may not score very often but I hope he gets paid closer to 1.5m for his sake with the way he puts his body on the line.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by Scoutski

Bouma may not score very often but I hope he gets paid closer to 1.5m for his sake with the way he puts his body on the line.

Agreed. He deserves at least 1.5

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Monahan. He's playing too well as a rookie. The Flames are not sucking enough for a good pick. Since the draft is the most fun part of the season that should be the teams focus.

Sincerely,

Kevin Lowe & Craig MacTavish

[McG]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Monahan. He's playing too well as a rookie. The Flames are not sucking enough for a good pick. Since the draft is the most fun part of the season that should be the teams focus.

Sincerely,

Kevin Lowe & Craig MacTavish

P.S. the draft parties for season ticket holders blow away the playoff parties where all of the riff-raff are allowed to join us.

Sincerely, Tier One Oiler Fans

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Assuming that:
1) Knight and Baertschi make the team next year.
2) We sign Colborne (1.5M?), Bouma (750K?) and Ortio (1.75M?)
3) At least 1 other rookie makes the team at less than 1M, example Granlund.

That leaves needing to spend at least 5.5M for a winger and a defenseman and that assumes we have O'Brien's cap hit. If we buy out Jones that leaves us needing to spend at least 9.5M on 2 wingers and a defenseman. It doesn't make sense to buy out Jones unless we can land at least one big name free agent like Jagr or Stastny.

They don't need to spend it. If the flames don't reach the floor the difference gets paid into a kitty all the players divide. No real penalty to the team since they would spend that money anyway - they should not bother signing overpaid players just to hit the floor if it means blocking young guys who need ice.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Matty81

If the flames don't reach the floor the difference gets paid into a kitty all the players divide.

Where did you get this information from? I've never seen that written anywhere.

[Sylvanfan]

3 more years on Wideman's contract scares me. The Flame need an accelerated buyout option where you take the entire buyout amount as a cap hit the next season.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I would add the why question as well. To test the reality of using a buyout, imagine you are the GM and you have to pitch this expense to the owners:

You: Hiya guys, we have to buy out players A and B.

Them: Ok, but what is the advantage to us doing that?

You: Ummmm.....

Logic is Jones keeps hurting himself, especially his shoulder, and is constantly in and out of the sick bay because of it..with 2years left do u want to keep having that roster spot used up by a guy not part of the solution or future..?

It makes sense to keep O'Brien cause he can offer more in his cap hit and in mentoring the kids in Abbotsford. He is also a UFA next year so could be a minor trade chip next deadline..but I threw his name out there cause he really is the only other candidate for a compliance buyout..

If it were me I'd buy out Jones..I like him, when he's healthy, but in 7 seasons he's only played over 50 games twice (77,72).

[PeteLFan]

David jones is a borderline 4th liner, and he's being paid like a top 6 winger. It really doesn't matter of he shoots left or right the fact is he isn't a good hockey player and we are better off without him.

What a terrible trade. He might be big but he doesn't use his size, he's David moss all over again.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

3 more years on Wideman's contract scares me. The Flame need an accelerated buyout option where you take the entire buyout amount as a cap hit the next season.

The Flames still have their compliance buyouts that they can use this summer. Compliance buyouts do not carry any cap penalty - however, they need to be used this off-season as the compliance buyout window closes after this summer.

If I were to use both buyouts, I'd use them on O'Brien and Jones. Jones can be upgraded upon via free agency - and there's no need for the Flames to carry O'Brien, who still carries an NHL cap-hit of 1.075M even though he's playing in the AHL.