Toronto collapses again, still suck.

[moon]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Phaneuf at $1 million doesn't make him a better player.

It would make him the greatest bargain in the league.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by moon

It would make him the greatest deal in the league.

Agreed. Toss him on the 3rd pairing and give him PP minutes and $1 mil contract and you'd have a great bargain.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by moon

It would make him the greatest bargain in the league.

Exactly, a one million dollar contract wouldn't make him a better player, but it sure would lower expectations. He simply isn't a 7 million dollar player. His RFA contract ruined him.

[PeteMoss]

The years where Phaneuf excelled was when guys like Regehr were taking all of the toughest match-ups and he could concentrate on putting up points and landing the odd hit. As long as the Leafs rely on him to be the main shut down guy, he's not going to be the same offensive weapon he was when he started here.

[19Yzerman19]

Wow, I hate the Leafs and even I think some of this is over the top. Phaneuf isn't a bad defenseman, he's just overpaid by a million or so. I'd take him at $5.75

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Exactly, a one million dollar contract wouldn't make him a better player, but it sure would lower expectations. He simply isn't a 7 million dollar player. His RFA contract ruined him.

Totally, If Sutter had bridged him for even 2 years he probably would still be a flame and a better player, $6.5 million, a hot piece of ass and keys to the city at age 21 isn't a great mix for a brainless athlete.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Wow, I hate the Leafs and even I think some of this is over the top. Phaneuf isn't a bad defenseman, he's just overpaid by a million or so. I'd take him at $5.75

Agreed... he's a lower tier #1 guy. Most of the top teams have better #1 guys OR if they don't they have strong defensive defenseman throughout the roster. The Leafs don't really have anyone who fits that bill... they were hoping Ranger or Gleason could fill it but both of them are bottom pairing guys at this time.

Its all out disaster if a top line gets matched up against the Gardiner/Reilly pair or the Ranger/Gleason/Franson mismash... so its all left on Phaneuf/Gunnersson.

[19Yzerman19]

Lest we forget that all 5.5M - 5.75 buys you on the UFA market is Matt Carle, Tobias Enstrom and James Wysniewski apparently.

I honestly think that having a guy be overpaid by a mil isn't the end of the world. The problem is paying bank for guys who you'd just as well not have at all. Toronto's problem isn't Dion Phaneuf, it's that they left Macarthur walk so that they could pay Clarkson much more money, and Grabovski walk so they could play Bozak on the top line. It's that kind of bonehead move that hurts them - the guys that should be playing for them are playing for other teams.

[19Yzerman19]

DPost

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Were 9 points up on 8th not that long ago and then lost 8 in a row and lost to the Jets last night and are now almost guaranteed not to make the playoffs. This teams epic collapses are laughable and enjoyable as we continue to get the "center of the hockey universe" continually rammed down our throats by the media because they all originate from Toronto. Suck it it Toronto and suck it Leaf fans, losers since 1967!

No, it's because they make the most money with the Leafs. If it was your job, you'd show the Leafs too.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Lest we forget that all 5.5M - 5.75 buys you on the UFA market is Matt Carle, Tobias Enstrom and James Wysniewski apparently.

I honestly think that having a guy be overpaid by a mil isn't the end of the world. The problem is paying bank for guys who you'd just as well not have at all. Toronto's problem isn't Dion Phaneuf, it's that they left Macarthur walk so that they could pay Clarkson much more money, and Grabovski walk so they could play Bozak on the top line. It's that kind of bonehead move that hurts them - the guys that should be playing for them are playing for other teams.

People on this board keep saying this yet Bozak is a better player. If Grabovski was on the Leafs, he'd be a third line centre making 5.5 million. He's not better than Bozak or Kadri.

Out of Grabovski/Kadri/Bozak, Grabovski is the oldest, most expensive with the worst stats.

[strombad]

It was about time.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

People on this board keep saying this yet Bozak is a better player. If Grabovski was on the Leafs, he'd be a third line centre making 5.5 million. He's not better than Bozak or Kadri.

Everything stats wise pointed to Bozak being the worse player than Grabovski so I'm really not sure where your confidence comes from.

Mythbusting: Tyler Bozak.

In short, bad at faceoffs despite being the 'best center', Kessel scores more goals, and is atrocious defensively without Kessel for some reason. Honestly one of the more real scenarios when people say 'Oh player x is only doing well because of player y'.

The real reason(s) behind Grabovski's buyout is the coach liked Bozak infinitely more than Grabovski for whatever reason (lolcarlyle) and they wanted to save some money to go after Clarkson. Bozak has had a solid season this year instead of Grabovski on a Ovechkin powered offensive team but I'd chalk that to having another great year from Kessel, JVR having chemistry with Kessel as well as having his own great season.

[ComixZone]

The Maple Leafs definitely make me a tad worried about Burke being here. He did not do a good job in Toronto. He had how many years to build that team back up? All that happened was that the team just cycled from barely a playoff team to not a playoff team back to being barely a playoff team.

Hopefully things go better here.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Maple Leafs definitely make me a tad worried about Burke being here. He did not do a good job in Toronto. He had how many years to build that team back up? All that happened was that the team just cycled from barely a playoff team to not a playoff team back to being barely a playoff team.

Hopefully things go better here.

I'm not a huge Burke fan, but I think he did a good job in Toronto. They were moving up and turning the corner, but then Nonis took over. I think Nonis made a lot of mistakes and undid a lot of good.

Burke did openly admit that the rebuild in Toronto took longer than he originally thought/planned.

[strombad]

BigTuna is the perfect example of what I was talking about.

Regarding Bozak:
Because you're talking about Grabovski (a player they got rid of), Bozak is a good player, much better even, so that Grabovski could not dream of cracking the top line.

However, talk about Kessel being average? Then Bozak becomes the worst first liner in the entire LEAGUE, and he should be so lucky to even be on the first line, and that Kessel carries the whole line.

In one scenario, Bozak is good, dependable, a sure fire 1st liner. In the other? Useless, not fit for the first line.

Toronto!

[dino7c]

the problem isn't the money itself...its the fact that he has to be a top pairing d-man especially with that contract and the C on his jersey. He would be a much better player in a 3/4 role with top pp time but you can't do that win a 7M player especially in TO

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by moon

It would make him the greatest bargain in the league.

I think the term would still hurt you even at the discount.

Can't imagine Dion in year 7 of that contract, a fire truck could turn around faster.

[dammage79]

I was happy when they traded Phaneuf. Was hoping for that trade for a year and a half. Leafs bought low at the time and now it turns out they may have traded at par. not a good sign. Then you sign him to a ridiculously heavy handed contract for eternity. Trust us, it will feel like an eternity when all is said and done.

I thought 7 million was far too high when they re-signed him and still think it's far too high. anything over 4.5 is a bad investment. his best hockey was played in that hemisphere of dollar amounts.

Anywho, enjoy the baggage T.O!

[nik-]

Basically at this point, regardless of overpaid or not overpaid, if Phaneuf is your top defenceman, you're in trouble.