The Canadian teams suck

[Poe969]

100% agree, he is a good goalie but I still don't think he's an elite goalie. He faces a lot of shots and makes a lot of saves but I just don't see him as the guy who's stollen too many games for his team.

I will openly say that I think he's improving and he has more potential.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Now you're attempting to completely change the subject because you know how silly the "Bernier is Average" comment is.

I said he's been one of the best goalies this season. I said nothing about the team being awesome.

The stats don't lie, he's had a top save % two years in a row. this year he's done it by facing the most shots of any goalie. That's not average. He's a great goalie to have going forward.

Lol no. For one I did not say Bernier was average not once. I simply said he was a player brought in this year. He has been great this season actually.

I do think going from Grabovski/MacArthur to Bolland/Clarkson as being a bit of a downgrade. More so MacArthur and Clarskon as Grabovski/Bolland has been a wash (or maybe even favored the Leafs).

I guess last year was a smoke screen and likely if it was an 82 game schedule vs 48 the Leafs would be missing the dance for the 9th year in a row.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

It's really hard not to put him in the top 5 for the 2013-14' season given the shots he faces and his numbers.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the Leafs are so bad this year?

According to you they have:
- Elite goaltending (best tandem in the league and a franchise goaltender)
- A great defence (including an elite Phaneuf)
- One of the very best forward in the game (Lupul)
- An elite goal scorer (Kessel)

So if they have great defence, an elite defender, an elite franchise goalie and overall the best tandem in the entire NHL, why are they in the bottom 5 for GA/G?

If it's because they face the most shots, then why is it that a great defence lead by an elite defender can't bring that number down?

As well, would you say Washington has elite goaltending that is comparable to Toronto? Because they allow almost the same amount of shots, and have a better GA/G, so you could argue that their tandem is equal to that of Toronto, could you not?

[PeteMoss]

Bernier better turn out to be elite since Nonis has pretty much botched every other move he's made since taking over.

• Clarkson signing
• Buying out Grabovski
• Bolland trade that looked good has turned out awful (3 picks for 20 games)
• Questionable Phaneuf contract
• Trading Colborne to keep Fraser McLaren/Colton Orr

A few of the smaller moves look ok (Gleason for Liles didn't hurt, picking up Holland) but didn't really move the needle much.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Bernier better turn out to be elite since Nonis has pretty much botched every other move he's made since taking over.

• Clarkson signing
• Buying out Grabovski
• Bolland trade that looked good has turned out awful (3 picks for 20 games)
• Questionable Phaneuf contract
• Trading Colborne to keep Fraser McLaren/Colton Orr

A few of the smaller moves look ok (Gleason for Liles didn't hurt, picking up Holland) but didn't really move the needle much.

Grabovski is not better than Kadri or Bozak. So why keep him as a 3rd line centre?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

Out of curiosity, why do you think the Leafs are so bad this year?

According to you they have:
- Elite goaltending (best tandem in the league and a franchise goaltender)
- A great defence (including an elite Phaneuf)
- One of the very best forward in the game (Lupul)
- An elite goal scorer (Kessel)

So if they have great defence, an elite defender, an elite franchise goalie and overall the best tandem in the entire NHL, why are they in the bottom 5 for GA/G?

If it's because they face the most shots, then why is it that a great defence lead by an elite defender can't bring that number down?

As well, would you say Washington has elite goaltending that is comparable to Toronto? Because they allow almost the same amount of shots, and have a better GA/G, so you could argue that their tandem is equal to that of Toronto, could you not?

LOL. Yeah, I've raved about that defence...

The Leafs desperately need a coach that can teach defense. they also need a solid top 4 guy who can play well defensively.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Grabovski is not better than Kadri or Bozak. So why keep him as a 3rd line centre?

Giving away decent centres is not a wise move.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Giving away decent centres is not a wise move.

He had zero trade value.

[PeteMoss]

Then they should have kept him. If you haven't noticed centre isn't an easy position to fill. That's why when Bolland got injured the Leafs were playing AHL guys and McClement playing way too often.

[PeteMoss]

And Bozak being better than him is debatable. Bozak gets to ride the coattails of Kessel/JVR.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

This thread is slowly turning into the unofficial "Toronto is no good" thread. I think I'll be heading back over to the Canucks thread.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Bad drafting is the biggest contributor but also poor management has dogged Canadian teams as well as the fact the most elite UFA players opt to go to American teams making the bad drafting stick out more as an issue. Canucks under Gillis, Oilers under the Klown show, Flames since the 90's, Jets/Thrashers, Leafs all have drafted poorly and have turned very few of their draft picks into elite superstars. The Senators and Habs have drafted better but even they haven't really franchise players although Karlsson and Subban are very good defenseman they are both flawed defensively. Most of the best players in the league were all drafted by American teams hence the dominance of US teams.

We always see lists and articles explaining how around 50% of revenue comes from the seven canadian teams. All seven teams are in all in the top half of the league in revenue per team (Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are in the top five I believe). However, money doesn't seem to buy victories north of the border.

With a salary cap, you can only spend so much on talent, although all the Canadian teams should be able to afford to spend to the cap ceiling. The one advantage the Canadian teams should have is being able to hire top notch management, coaching, and scouting. Not to mention the benifit of seeing CHL prospects play in your own rink in markets like Calgary and Edmonton. However, like you pointed out, the Canadian teams continually fall short when it comes to drafting.

Does the location and climate limit the potential for Canadian teams?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

LOL. Yeah, I've raved about that defence...

The Leafs desperately need a coach that can teach defense. they also need a solid top 4 guy who can play well defensively.

Well yeah, you did. I was just quoting you:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Well worth 7 million. He's been an elite defensive D-Man this season.

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Phaneuf/Franson/Gunnarsson/Gardiner/Ranger/Liles/Rielly is a great defense.

And these are pretty good as well:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Not mentioning the elite goaltending as a reason? That is sustainable.

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Just too much talent to not be a top East contender.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

14 teams miss the playoffs and almost half will be Canadian teams. Amazing to me considering the Canadian teams have some of the deepest resources out there.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

14 teams miss the playoffs and almost half will be Canadian teams. Amazing to me considering the Canadian teams have some of the deepest resources out there.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Does the location and climate limit the potential for Canadian teams?

One theory in other threads is that CDN markets don't have the patience for proper builds.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by troutman

One theory in other threads is that CDN markets don't have the patience for proper builds.

Edmonton has shown it has the patience. If only they had a team that's capable of doing a proper build.

[ForeverFlameFan]

The American teams mainly have Canadian players playing on the rosters, so I don't know why Canada freaks about not having a cup that much. It really bites though because we've had 4 opportunities to get the SC back in Canada, we're Just really snake-bitten in the 21st century.

1. CGY lost in 7 (2003-2004)
2. EDM lost in 7 (2005-2006)
3. OTT lost in 5 (2006-2007)
4. VAN lost in 7 (2010-2011)

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but all three of the game 7's, the Canadian team was up 3-2 in the series and somehow lost the last two games.

The only hope this year is the Canadiens and I really don't think they have a shot when you got Boston to beat if you beat Tampa Bay. I don't even think they will beat Tampa Bay either. The western conference just has so many good teams yet again, that another American team will yet again win the cup.

It also doesn't help that the odds a Canadian team will bring back the cup is 23.3%.

[neo45]

What is the Leafs record vs the west this season? Id be curious to see if they are even better than us in our worst year vs one of their best. Something tells me if the Leafs had our division they would have been out of the race a month ago

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by troutman

One theory in other threads is that CDN markets don't have the patience for proper builds.

I don't know if I really buy that being a major factor. Edmonton has missed the playoffs 8 years in a row, Toronto likely 8 of the last 9 years, Calgary is on their 5th year in a row; I don't really see fanbases that are necessarily lacking patience.

And a lot of the currently successful teams didn't really go through prolonged so-called "proper" rebuilds either. Yeah you've got Chicago and Pittsburgh, but there's also teams like Boston who haven't missed the playoffs more than twice in the row since the '60s, Anaheim who hasn't missed the playoffs twice in a row in over a decade, and San Jose who has made the playoffs 14 of the last 15 seasons.

It's probably a combination of factors. I do think you can make an argument that it's primarily an ownership problem. You have the clown show in Edmonton, Calgary's ownership seemed dead set on the "win now" mode even though it made no sense and Vancouver looks similar under Aquilini, the horribly dysfunctional Toronto ownership was a big reason for that team's mess, etc. But I'm not sure that's really because they're Canadian teams or if it's just random.

I also don't think the undesirability of playing in Canada (especially Western Canada) should be underestimated. Teams like Edmonton, Calgary, or Vancouver could've offered Chara the moon and they still probably wouldn't have gotten him, and that has been a crucial factor in Boston being able to retool quickly.