The Alison Redford transgressions thread. Update- Redford quits.

[killer_carlson]

That list also does something else: It ends the complaint that all the WR does is critique and not offer alternatives.

Now the debate is the merits of the alternatives.

[Maccalus]

Originally Posted by Slava

From looking at that list the Wildrose apparently can't balance the books either. I didn't pull out a calculator, but what are we at there...$2B? The biggest line item in terms of savings is $950M for the funding to cities and I'm not even sure ho feasible that would be to save at this point? Presumably some of that work has begun.

They don't claim that they would have a balanced budget this year. They claim on the first page of this document in that list http://www.wildrose.ca/media/2014/02...mendations.pdf That they would balance the budget by budgetary restraint over 12-36 months in order to maintain front line staff.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

That list also does something else: It ends the complaint that all the WR does is critique and not offer alternatives.

Now the debate is the merits of the alternatives.

Meh. I've gone through their budget documents in the past and they're far from impressive. They often rely on one or two big things to balance the books and its just not feasible. For example during the 2012 election they were claiming a $2B savings from the carbon capture program and it just wasn't there to be saved.

I will give them credit that at this point they are saying they can't make it balance though.

[Maccalus]

I just want to put it out that that I am not affiliated with the wildrose party. I just think they get a little more criticism than is justified by some people who have never looked deeply into their platforms, or haven't looked at them since the last election. They have learned and matured since then and moved a little closer to the centre than people realize (They are still the most right wing major party of course)

One idea I found when digging through their documents is this:

Allowing developers to build schools as a feature of their new neighbourhoods whenever

practical, and integrate all or part of the cost into the homes surrounding them (the PC

government currently will not permit this solution).

Page 8 of their 10 year capital plan http://www.wildrose.ca/media/2013/02...Plan-FINAL.pdf

The way I read that is it can be an alternative source of funding for elementary schools in new communities to allow them to be constructed faster. I think it could work for elementaries as their catchment is normally limited to just the community for the initial wave of students. I don't see it working as well for Junior High and High schools due to the politics of catchment areas.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Meh. I've gone through their budget documents in the past and they're far from impressive. They often rely on one or two big things to balance the books and its just not feasible. For example during the 2012 election they were claiming a $2B savings from the carbon capture program and it just wasn't there to be saved.

I will give them credit that at this point they are saying they can't make it balance though.

the fact that even if you put in the most aggressive methods possible to balance the budget and it can't be done is pretty damning.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

the fact that even if you put in the most aggressive methods possible to balance the budget and it can't be done is pretty damning.

I know it's sacrilege to even mention this in Alberta, but perhaps that's an indication that maybe, just maybe, we're not being fiscally prudent by having a 10% flat income tax and no PST.

Nobody wants a tax increase, but we have to balance the budget somehow or else we're just pushing our fiscal irresponsibility to future generations. If even the WRP can't balance the budget with their proposed aggressive spending cuts, surely that's an indication that we need to increase revenues. I saw a video a few months ago of Kent Hehr in the provincial legislature remarking that if Alberta had the same tax code as Saskatchewan (currently the second-lowest in Canada), then increase in revenue would put us back in the black.

[Resolute 14]

You can tell that the Tories are losing support by the fact it took three pages before MarchHare et al turned it into an anti-Wildrose thread. That's about 65 posts slower than usual.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Please quote any post on this forum where I said, "there is absolutely no waste or inefficiency in the government".

If you fail in that task, please quote the post where I even inferred that message.

Hey... I laughed when he wrote :

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I love how you are totally serious that there is absolutely no waste or inefficiency in the government.

I thought is was a funny re-buttle.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I know it's sacrilege to even mention this in Alberta, but perhaps that's an indication that maybe, just maybe, we're not being fiscally prudent by having a 10% flat income tax and no PST.

Nobody wants a tax increase, but we have to balance the budget somehow or else we're just pushing our fiscal irresponsibility to future generations. If even the WRP can't balance the budget with their proposed aggressive spending cuts, surely that's an indication that we need to increase revenues. I saw a video a few months ago of Kent Hehr in the provincial legislature remarking that if Alberta had the same tax code as Saskatchewan (currently the second-lowest in Canada), then increase in revenue would put us back in the black.

I think bringing our spending under control would be of much more importance than pretending we have some kind of revenue shortage. We live in a province where spending has increased almost 50% in the last decade AFTER accounting for inflation and population growth (over 100% increase before adjustments). The average Alberta bureaucrat costs 10% more than the comparable employee in the private sector, and the management to worker ratio is ridiculous.

If we'd kept our spending in line with other provinces, like Ontario or Saskatchewan, we'd have remained in the black with billions saved in the heritage trust fund as well.

We need to stop overspending before we institute any new taxes.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

Meh. I've gone through their budget documents in the past and they're far from impressive. They often rely on one or two big things to balance the books and its just not feasible. For example during the 2012 election they were claiming a $2B savings from the carbon capture program and it just wasn't there to be saved.

I will give them credit that at this point they are saying they can't make it balance though.

Slava you've been consistent in your criticisms of the specifics but at least you agree the Wildrose does have specific proposals.

Meanwhile, The Canadian Taxpayers Federation has a balanced budget proposal for this year. It's certainly not impossible.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Lame.

I agree, it is lame that there are still so people who don't look at the policies but only the names of the party and where they traditionally might fall on the economic spectrum 50 years ago!

That was kinda my point, which you proved when you said, 'toxic brand, they shoulda changed their name 10 years ago.' People just look at names.

Fair enough, it probably would be a smart political move to rebrand the provincial liberals, but yeah, people are still in the false mindset that left = tax and spend and right = balance budgets. This hasn't been the case for 40-50 years, not just provincially, but federally (The Chretian government reduced government and Harper increased it) and even in the States (Clinton balanced budgets, Bush spent more than anyone in the history of the nation, well before Obama I guess, though the wars were still from Bush)!

Looking at policies, the Liberals (at least last election, haven't looked too closely since then) looked to have some of the best ideas, for me anyway. But like you said, the brand is toxic in this province. So yeah, too many people looking at names, it is lame.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Daradon

people are still in the false mindset that left = tax and spend and right = balance budgets. This hasn't been the case for 40-50 years, not just provincially, but federally (The Chretian government reduced government and Harper increased it) and even in the States (Clinton balanced budgets, Bush spent more than anyone in the history of the nation, well before Obama I guess, though the wars were still from Bush)!

While there were definately some fiscal policy anomalies from the parties like you pointed out, labeling still by and large works. Harper cut GST by 2% and corporate tax rate to 15%. And for the last term, Harper did reduce the size of the Fed government in an effort to balance the budget.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I think bringing our spending under control would be of much more importance than pretending we have some kind of revenue shortage. We live in a province where spending has increased almost 50% in the last decade AFTER accounting for inflation and population growth (over 100% increase before adjustments). The average Alberta bureaucrat costs 10% more than the comparable employee in the private sector, and the management to worker ratio is ridiculous.

If we'd kept our spending in line with other provinces, like Ontario or Saskatchewan, we'd have remained in the black with billions saved in the heritage trust fund as well.

We need to stop overspending before we institute any new taxes.

I really agree with this post, there should be no talk about increasing taxation until there's a full look at how the money is being spent.

you can't increase taxes to cover incompetent planning.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You can tell that the Tories are losing support by the fact it took three pages before MarchHare et al turned it into an anti-Wildrose thread. That's about 65 posts slower than usual.

You say that like I have a history of hijacking threads with anti-Wildrose posts. Along with crazy_eoj, that's twice I've been accused of that in this thread. I'm really curious where this attitude comes from because I've barely posted anything at all about the WRP since the election two years ago. Are you sure you're not mistaking me for somebody else?

[Jacks]

Interesting look at the effect Redford is having on grassroots support.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...545/story.html

EDMONTON - A “shocking” number of high-ranking Progressive Conservative insiders failed to sign up for a new party fundraising program, forcing Tory organizers to delay the launch even as the party struggles to fill its war chest in preparation for the 2016 provincial election.

An email sent by party executive director Kelley Charlebois and leaked to the Edmonton Journal shows 28 of the governing party’s sitting members — nearly half — did not sign up to contribute to the new PC Legacy Fund. It is designed to increase the number of smaller, grassroots contributions to the party.

In addition, 61 of the party’s association presidents also failed to register, a figure Charlebois calls “shocking.

The most recent financial statements show the Conservatives were nearly $800,000 in debt after the leadership race in 2011 and an expensive provincial election in 2012. The party received $2.3 million in donations that year, eight per cent were contributions under $375.

The Wildrose finished the last election with $403,000 in the bank. That party received $2.2 million in contributions in 2012, 40 per cent of which were under $375.

The parties will file 2013 annual financial statements with Elections Alberta at the end of March.

“Our fundraising is fine, our volunteerism is fine, and our contributions from individuals is fine,” Premier Alison Redford said Tuesday, adding she was “surprised” by the email and wouldn’t have sent it herself.

Earlier this year, Redford made headlines when it was revealed she hadn’t donated to her party since 2010, when she contributed $690.

It looks like the small regular donors are moving away from the party, if they ever lose power it's likely the large donors will abandon ship also. It'll be interesting to see the 2013 numbers at the end of the month.

It is very obvious that about 27% of the vote shifted directly from the PC's to the WR last election. The total collapse of the Lib vote allowed the PC's to retain power. This is further shown with the PC's currently sitting at around 25% support. It appears that of the people polled about 5% have drifted from the PC's right and about 11% have drifted from the PC left since the last election but it's only a poll.

2008
PC 52.7%
Lib 26.4%
NDP 8.5%
WR 6.8%

2012
PC 44% -8.7%
WR 34.3% +27.5%
Lib 9.9% -16.5%
NDP 9.8% +1.3%
ABP 1.3%

Current poll (keep in mind there is a margin of error) kind of points to the regular Lib support still being there with some possibly shifting to the NDP? Bad news for Sherman if that trend continues.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...770/story.html
PC 25% -19%
WR 38% +3.7%
Lib 16% +6.7%
NDP 15% +5.2%

It will be interesting to see if the Lib (and NDP) voters hold their nose and keep Redford in power. Without the propping up of the PC's by the traditional left vote the PC support would collapse in an election and I bet you would see the left flank of the PC's bleed the opposite way and make the Libs the #2 party. If the PC's don't turn this around in the next 6 months they will have no option but to dump Redford IMO.

[Dion]

Redford and her MLAs accused of further abuse of government planes

EDMONTON — It was wheels up at 3:11 p.m. last Nov. 26 for Premier Alison Redford, a few aides and a fellow Calgary MLA, as the government’s Beechcraft King Air took off from the capital for Calgary.

Thirty-one minutes earlier, two other Calgary MLAs made the same trip on another taxpayer-funded plane.

Had the politicians co-ordinated their travel, they and all the aides they flew with could have fit on the nine-seater that ferried the premier to her hometown.

Since 2012, Redford has flown a government plane within Alberta at least seven occasions when another taxpayer-funded aircraft had made the same trip within an hour of the premier’s takeoff. On another three occasions, the one plane was headed to Calgary International and another flew shortly after to Calgary-Springbank airport. The two Calgary airports are 42 kilometres apart.

In all of those cases, there were enough seats for all passengers to share a plane, according to publicly available flight manifests.

The Herald found two duplicate flights on the same day in flight logs posted on the finance minister’s website.

On the morning of Jan. 20, 2012, eight of Redford’s caucus mates and one aide took the province’s 36-seat propeller plane from Calgary to Edmonton, while Redford flew home with a pair of assistants a half-hour later. The same trio returned north in that smaller plane, instead of waiting 54 more minutes and joining 14 MLAs on the bigger Dash-8.

A month later, Redford and her executive assistant flew to the Springbank airport late on a Thursday afternoon. There was room on their plane for the six southern Alberta MLAs who took the same route on a seven-seat craft 56 minutes later.

Last June, the premier took a plane from Edmonton to Calgary with Brad Stables — her travel companion on the controversial trip to South Africa in December. A half-hour later, Lt.-Gov. Don Ethell and his wife were the lone passengers on a second government plane.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...119/story.html

[CaptainCrunch]

These people can't be that stupid.

Its almost like they're trying to do everything they can to throw the next election.

[Bigtime]

Unreal, however I don't agree with Rob Anderson about potentially getting rid of the entire fleet. Many times when watching the flight trackers you do see the smaller King Air fleet going to smaller centres in AB that are not served by any commercial air service. So they do have a value in that capacity.

[Resolute 14]

There are times when it is prudent to use multiple flights, such as to prevent losing too many high ranking officials at once in case of an accident. I suspect that most of these incidents don't fit that argument, however.

[darklord700]

They probably had been doing this for ages but had never caugth anyone's attention. The PC MLAs are going to hate Alison more now because her theatrics drew this kind of attention to themselves.

Are these AB government planes? How come the non Tory MLAs never seemed to be on them.