You Know What Really Grinds My Gears....The Sequel!

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Interesting thought. I believe it isn't like how we talk about Deerfoot being under the province's control, and Glenmore under the city's; the jurisdiction mentioned refers to the laws and rules of the road. For example, a city cannot put a merge symbol on a red octagon sign; as the province has jurisdiction over what signs are allowed.

It's very interesting and I honestly don't know the answer but I would argue that it would be similar to speed limits, where the Traffic Safety Act addresses it but also allows municipalities jurisdiction to implement their own limits on roads under their control.

It might not matter but as an example roads under the city's control are assigned where and what line painting is to be done (and paid for) by the city, and the province for highways.

If anyone knows a CPS officer it would be a good question to ask.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by strombad

Hmmmm, NAH.

Duffman was just fine. He was at or faster that the vehicle on his left. There is no scenario where it's appropriate for the vehicle on his left to have sped up, gone in front of him, and immediately slowed down on an empty stretch of rural highway. It's ignorant.

"Keep right except to pass" is not a law in Alberta (nor one in Canada, I believe). There is only "Slower vehicles keep right" which suggests that vehicles moving slower than the speed limit or natural flow of traffic should stay to the right. Duffman was neither of these things.

All of you folks need to understand: "keep right except to pass" is not a rule nor is it required unless clearly marked on Alberta roads. Duffman did absolutely nothing wrong.

The highway traffic act is not the be-all and end-all of good driving. He didn't break the law, but keeping right is the courteous and safe thing to do because it allows faster drivers to pass on the left. He absolutely was driving improperly.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If Duffman was in the correct lane of travel, then this "dick move" never happens.

Keep right except to pass. One dick move cancels the other?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

The highway traffic act is not the be-all and end-all of good driving. He didn't break the law, but keeping right is the courteous and safe thing to do because it allows faster drivers to pass on the left. He absolutely was driving improperly.

But the other driver was not driving faster? Your confusing "driving properly" with "driving courteously". Those aren't the same. He did nothing improperly, and based on how he described the situation, he wasn't being at all uncourteous.

You're citing a system which only has meaning to some people. Driving in the left hand lane requires only that you drive the speed limit (or flow of traffic) or faster. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

The highway traffic act is not the be-all and end-all of good driving. He didn't break the law, but keeping right is the courteous and safe thing to do because it allows faster drivers to pass on the left. He absolutely was driving improperly.

Fawk, you guys, pay attention here. We were 2 cars travelling on a 2 lane divided rural hiway at night, in the dark. There were no other cars for kilometers, either ahead of us or behind us. We were doing the same speed. He was 5 car lengths behind me, in the other lane(I know I said 8 or 10, but now that I really think about it, it was 5 or less)

As a courtesy(in my mind) I did not want to be in front of him in the same lane when the other one was completely open. If it were me, I'd prefer if the other driver was not in front of me in the same lane. In this scenario, I didn't really care which lane was which, but he was in the right so I stayed in the left.

If anyone had caught up to us. I absolutely would've got into the right lane. Had he pulled into the left lane behind me I would've got into the right lane.

[troutman]

Shared office printer - some people print a dozen jobs, but don't bother to pick them up for an hour. I have to search through 100 pages to find my one page e-mail.

[Puppet Guy]

perfume/cologne inserts in magazines.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Puppet Guy

perfume/cologne in general.

fyp

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by GGG

Anyone else read these posts with Random capitalization, ranting about wanting to teach people lessons, and odd punctuation in the voice of Springs1.

I have several times strongly considered an alias to do exactly this. It seems to me that driving etiquette is perfectly suited to a springs1 type character.

Originally Posted by strombad

"Keep right except to pass" is not a law in Alberta (nor one in Canada, I believe). There is only "Slower vehicles keep right" which suggests that vehicles moving slower than the speed limit or natural flow of traffic should stay to the right. Duffman was neither of these things. All of you folks need to understand: "keep right except to pass" is not a rule nor is it required unless clearly marked on Alberta roads. Duffman did absolutely nothing wrong.

First, I think this is nonsense. There are highway laws and then there are generally accepted conventions of driving, and this is the latter.
(Actually, it's arguably become law by convention - remember those guys who drove next to each other at exactly the speed limit down highway 1 to protest a ticket, and ended up getting another one for impeding traffic when they ended up with a three mile long line of cars behind them?)

In any event, the "rule", if you want to call it that, is effectively keep right except to pass, precisely because the speed of traffic, and certainly the speed LIMIT, is not the speed at which some people have chosen to drive. If I'm humming along the #2 at 115kph and someone wants to do 125, I should generally be in the right lane and out of their way. That is a matter of courtesy that has become generally accepted.

That being said, while my initial reaction to his post was "should've been in the right lane" as it was with many others, I quickly realized that I do this all the time. Especially in winter. If there's no one in the left lane and a guy in front of me in the right, I'm driving on the left even if I'm not passing him. This is simply because I don't really want dirt and rocks sprayed on my windshield. The point about wildlife on the highway is also well taken.

The competing views here aren't based on what is or isn't a rule, but what the policy behind the rule is. One side says, "we have a rule, law or no, and it's a rule of the road. Everyone should strictly adhere to rules of the road because this is a system where we're driving big metal machines around at high speed and danger is high, so what we want is 100% predictability when it comes to other drivers. The rule is stay on the right, so Duffman should have been on the right"

The other says, "but the whole point of this is safety. If it's safer not to obey the rule in a particular circumstance, the rule should be ignored. This is why those BC cops impounding vehicles for passing at 130kph+ in the oncoming traffic lanes is total crap - it's SAFER to go at that speed and get out of the oncoming traffic lane as quickly as possible, rather than trying to pass at 120 or something. In this case, it was just as safe, and probably safer, to drive in different lanes."

The rebuttal is, "but who gets to decide when the rules are suspended, and how do I know that as the other driver?" Etc. etc. But regardless, it's pointless to debate whose rules are right. The whole point is the underlying reason for the rule being there. Just IMO, in driving on the left in those circumstances, with basically no one else on the road and the other car nowhere particularly near him, Duffman is driving in a perfectly reasonable manner by being in the other lane.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by strombad

Hmmmm, NAH.

Duffman was just fine. He was at or faster that the vehicle on his left. There is no scenario where it's appropriate for the vehicle on his left to have sped up, gone in front of him, and immediately slowed down on an empty stretch of rural highway. It's ignorant.

"Keep right except to pass" is not a law in Alberta (nor one in Canada, I believe). There is only "Slower vehicles keep right" which suggests that vehicles moving slower than the speed limit or natural flow of traffic should stay to the right. Duffman was neither of these things.

All of you folks need to understand: "keep right except to pass" is not a rule nor is it required unless clearly marked on Alberta roads. Duffman did absolutely nothing wrong.

You folks? The ones doing it properly? The ones participating in a system that works?

How about you folks learn how to drive? Is it really necessary to make a law for everything? Would you prefer if an RCMP on a bad day could give you a ticket for not moving over to the right lane fast enough? Isn't it a bit silly that we need to "make it a law" so that the wannabe cops will adhere to the rules of the road?

Your attitude (just like all the ones before that I've argued with) is pretty frustrating. I mean, it's not against the law to fart in an elevator, either. But guess what? It's a dick move. I simply don't understand why people like to be a-holes. Why? Why is it fun to piss other people off while driving? People like you are the reason why there's road rage. "It's not illegal" is the stupidest excuse I've ever heard.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by troutman

Shared office printer - some people print a dozen jobs, but don't bother to pick them up for an hour. I have to search through 100 pages to find my one page e-mail.

Sounds like your co workers/employees are very busy and productive!
Begs the question, are you doing enough work?

"Here I am doing a dozen jobs, and troutman in his fancy chair in his fancy office is printing off jokes from his email!"

[Wormius]

I think it is time for the phase, "you might be doing it wrong" to die. It just sounds so pejorative the way people are using it.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by 4X4

You folks? The ones doing it properly? The ones participating in a system that works?

How about you folks learn how to drive? Is it really necessary to make a law for everything? Would you prefer if an RCMP on a bad day could give you a ticket for not moving over to the right lane fast enough? Isn't it a bit silly that we need to "make it a law" so that the wannabe cops will adhere to the rules of the road?

Your attitude (just like all the ones before that I've argued with) is pretty frustrating. I mean, it's not against the law to fart in an elevator, either. But guess what? It's a dick move. I simply don't understand why people like to be a-holes. Why? Why is it fun to piss other people off while driving? People like you are the reason why there's road rage. "It's not illegal" is the stupidest excuse I've ever heard.

It's like the annoying kid in school who would do the "I'm not touching you" thing.

Sure, but you're still being annoying and inconsiderate

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by troutman

Shared office printer - some people print a dozen jobs, but don't bother to pick them up for an hour. I have to search through 100 pages to find my one page e-mail.

Shouldn't your print job just be at the top, unless you also waited an hour to decide to pick up your print job?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

First, I think this is nonsense. There are highway laws and then there are generally accepted conventions of driving, and this is the latter.

In any event, the "rule", if you want to call it that, is effectively keep right except to pass, precisely because the speed of traffic, and certainly the speed LIMIT, is not the speed at which some people have chosen to drive. If I'm humming along the #2 at 115kph and someone wants to do 125, I should generally be in the right lane and out of their way. That is a matter of courtesy that has become generally accepted.

I think we agree somewhat, but it comes down to wording.

Don't be confused, keeping right is not a rule, no matter the sort of way you'd like to define it. Keeping right is (as I said) courteous driving in certain circumstances, but not required. Conversely, if I'm rocking down Deerfoot at 110-115 in the left, or Stoney at 110-115, when the flow of traffic is around 100, then quite frankly I don't really care if someone wants to go 125 and pass me. It's not my job to police the roads, nor is it my job to cater to morons. If someone in the left lane is going slower than I am, I slow down. Pretty easy.

I expect everyone to drive within the rules, but if they don't? Then they lose their right to courtesy. Courtesy is reserved for those within the rules of the road.

[btimbit]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, just thought it might add some clarity

Ticket: Traffic lane violation, slow moving vehicle TSA section 3 Demerits 2

3(1) If a person driving a vehicle is driving the vehicle on a
highway at a speed that is less than the normal speed of the traffic
on the highway at that time and place and under the conditions then
existing, that person shall drive the vehicle
(a) in the right traffic lane then available for traffic, or
(b) as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the
roadway,
except when either
(c) overtaking and passing another vehicle travelling in the
same direction, or
(d) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private
road or driveway.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by 4X4

You folks? The ones doing it properly? The ones participating in a system that works?

How about you folks learn how to drive? Is it really necessary to make a law for everything? Would you prefer if an RCMP on a bad day could give you a ticket for not moving over to the right lane fast enough? Isn't it a bit silly that we need to "make it a law" so that the wannabe cops will adhere to the rules of the road?

Your attitude (just like all the ones before that I've argued with) is pretty frustrating. I mean, it's not against the law to fart in an elevator, either. But guess what? It's a dick move. I simply don't understand why people like to be a-holes. Why? Why is it fun to piss other people off while driving? People like you are the reason why there's road rage. "It's not illegal" is the stupidest excuse I've ever heard.

I know how to drive, do folks like you? Speeding is a dick move. Going 125 in a 100 zone is a dick move that endangers everyone, but wait, we should all be catering to THOSE types of dick moves?

So some a-holes are better than others? Please. I don't ever attempt to piss anybody off. I just do me. I go the speed limit in the right lane, 10-15% over in the left lane, and I let everyone else do what they want to do.

It sounds like there's road rage because of people like YOU. YOU seem overly upset and concerned with how others want to drive. Maybe YOU should chill, not get so frustrated when you're not freely able to endanger other human beings by excessively speeding.

As frustrating as lane choice might be, it's infinitely more frustrating that people think excessive speeding is acceptable. It's not just against the law for no reason, it's for SAFETY. Drive SAFELY and it seems like these problems may be fixed. Oh, wait, you need to drive 140 on the highway and expect everyone to move over for you because you slept in? Poor boy.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by strombad

I think we agree somewhat, but it comes down to wording.

Don't be confused, keeping right is not a rule, no matter the sort of way you'd like to define it. Keeping right is (as I said) courteous driving in certain circumstances, but not required. Conversely, if I'm rocking down Deerfoot at 110-115 in the left, or Stoney at 110-115, when the flow of traffic is around 100, then quite frankly I don't really care if someone wants to go 125 and pass me. It's not my job to police the roads, nor is it my job to cater to morons. If someone in the left lane is going slower than I am, I slow down. Pretty easy.

I expect everyone to drive within the rules, but if they don't? Then they lose their right to courtesy. Courtesy is reserved for those within the rules of the road.

I really don't understand why 15 over is solid driving but 25 over makes you a moron.
What is the cut off? Is 65 in a 50 acceptable while 75 in a 50 makes you a moron. Or is it a percent thing where 58 in a 50 is perfectly fine but 63 makes you a moron?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I really don't understand why 15 over is solid driving but 25 over makes you a moron.

What is the cut off? Is 65 in a 50 acceptable while 75 in a 50 makes you a moron. Or is it a percent thing where 58 in a 50 is perfectly fine but 63 makes you a moron?

10-15 percent is generally acceptable as far as road standards apply.

You're extremely unlikely to get a ticket at 55 in a 50, or 110 on a 100.

Speeding is fine. Everyone speeds, nobody is out to change the world. But I'd think anything over 10% is excessive.

That said, if I'm going 115 in a 100, I'm not going to be upset if someone in front of me going 105-110 doesn't move over. They're using the left lane as intended.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by strombad

I know how to drive, do folks like you? Speeding is a dick move. Going 125 in a 100 zone is a dick move that endangers everyone, but wait, we should all be catering to THOSE types of dick moves?

So some a-holes are better than others? Please. I don't ever attempt to piss anybody off. I just do me. I go the speed limit in the right lane, 10-15% over in the left lane, and I let everyone else do what they want to do.

It sounds like there's road rage because of people like YOU. YOU seem overly upset and concerned with how others want to drive. Maybe YOU should chill, not get so frustrated when you're not freely able to endanger other human beings by excessively speeding.

As frustrating as lane choice might be, it's infinitely more frustrating that people think excessive speeding is acceptable. It's not just against the law for no reason, it's for SAFETY. Drive SAFELY and it seems like these problems may be fixed. Oh, wait, you need to drive 140 on the highway and expect everyone to move over for you because you slept in? Poor boy.

Lol. Because you don't understand how the left lane works, that means I've slept in and am trying to go 140? I entered this argument discussing with Duffman why cruising in the left lane is considered wrong.

No, I should have stayed away from this argument, like I have been for the last couple years. People like you just fail to grasp the concept. Not even worth my time. Flame away. Have fun with your attitude that your level of breaking the law is ok, but other peoples' is wrong. Good one.