Redford's trip to South Africa cost Alta taxpayers $45,000

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

On a side note, if the Keystone isn't approved after Redford did all of this jet setting to Washington on multiple occasions etc, she is going to get burned at the media stake.

Why? Shouldn't she have made every reasonable effort to influence decision-makers in Washington? Wouldn't she be burned at the media stake if she did not make all such reasonable efforts and the pipeline is not approved? Will Harper also be burned at the media stake if Keystone is not approved?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Why? Shouldn't she have made every reasonable effort to influence decision-makers in Washington? Wouldn't she be burned at the media stake if she did not make all such reasonable efforts and the pipeline is not approved? Will Harper also be burned at the media stake if Keystone is not approved?

She will be burned at the media stake because of the money spent with no results. Right or wrong.

Harper will have to probably taste that same fire.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Just for the sake of discussion, this will cost taxpayers far more than $45,000:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politic...trip-1.1643839

It may well be justified on a cost-benefit analysis, but one can't help but wonder why the business travellers couldn't justify paying their own travel costs on their own cost-benefit analysis. A real cynic might even wonder how many of these business travellers are PC party donors/supporters. But again, these are not the sort of decisions that should topple a government. Unfortunately, the Harper government has made an appalling number of bad legislative and policy decisions which justify toppling it.

I eagerly look forward to rerun's thread on Harper's grandiose spending.

from your link:

PMO spokesperson Jason MacDonald said the delegation will include leaders from various communities, including cultural communities, who will participate in meetings and events during the week-long trip. MacDonald told reporters Friday, that he does not yet have a complete list of the others who will be in Harper's entourage.

MacDonald did say that their expenses, the full extent of which are not yet known, will be paid for out of government coffers.

"Typically, when people are invited to fly with the prime minister on a trip like this, as part of the delegation, the government of Canada will cover the costs for the travel," MacDonald said.

MacDonald clarified in a tweet Friday afternoon that travel costs will not be covered for the entire delegation.

“Only 30 or so actually flying on govt plane, rest are paying their own way there,” MacDonald tweeted to CTV’s Don Martin.

30+ people? For a week? That's gotta cost a pretty penny.

Here's a list of some of the invitees:

There are 25 lawyers who are part of the 208-person delegation Middle East delegation Prime Minister Stephen Harper invited along with him on his first visit to Israel this week.

Some of the country’s largest law firms are represented including Torys LLP, Dentons LLP, Norton Rose Fulbright Canada LLP, Blake Cassels & Graydon LLP, BLG and Davies Ward, Phillips & Vineberg LLP as well as individuals such as Cailin Rovinescu, president & CEO Air Canada.
Firms

• Aikins, MacAulay & Thorvaldson LLP — Robert Gabor, partner.
• Blake Cassels & Graydon LLP — William C. Kaplan, partner and Edward Perlmutter, partner emeritus.
• Bloomfield & Advocats — Harry Bloomfield, Eldee Foundation.
• Borden Ladner Gervais LLP — Aaron Blumenfeld, partner.
• Davies, Ward, Phillips & Vineberg LLP — Berl Nadler, partner.
• Dentons Canada LLP — Hartley Lefton, lawyer, Sara Lefton, assistant director of student programs; David Spiro, lawyer.
• Filmore Riley LLP — David Kroft, lawyer, CIJA Board member.
• Gauthier & Associates — Jacques Gauthier.
• Green & Spiegel LLP — Evan Green, partner.
• Lavery De Billy LLP — Carl Ravinsky, lawyer.
• McLeod Law LLP — Aaron Bickman, partner; president, Board Jewish National Fund.
• Norton Rose Fulbright Canada LLP — Stanley Herbert Hartt, counsel. Hartt is a former deputy finance minister, former CEO of Campeau Corp. and was chief of staff to former prime minister Brian Mulroney.
• Pitblado LLP — Howard Morry, partner.
• Reiter-Nemetz — Steven Nemetz, lawyer.
• Torys LLP — Cheryl Reicin, partner.
• Zeifmans LLP — Larry Zeifman, partner.
Individuals

• Don Hutchinson — vice president, general counsel director, Centre for Faith and Public Life, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.
• Judy Kremer, national manager, search & recruitment, Life After Law Inc.
• Martin Morantz, businessman/lawyer.
• Moshe Ronen, vice president/lawyer — World Jewish Congress & Centre for Israel & Jewish affairs.
• Cailin Rovinescu, president & CEO Air Canada.
• Herbert Silber, lawyer.

http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/leg...east-trip.html

[Tron_fdc]

I made a quick foray into supporting a political candidate once (sponsored golf tourneys, did luncheons, etc etc). From what I can tell a lot of the people running around in provincial politics were either a) professional politicians b) people looking to be professional politicians and c) people looking to influence professional politicians. Redford and her camp seems to be fitting my stereotype quite well.

The whole mentality (or at least the feeling I got) was that people were more interested in the Alberta gravy train than they were in actually doing any good for the province. Which is a shame considering how much money there is here (which I guess would be part of the problem).

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

Thing is I don't disagree with any of this. I have my own business and travel at times for business, and I obviously don't treat it as "no holds barred". All my point is here is that there are columns in the paper suggesting that there was a flight with a stop in Winnipeg that she could've taken, and frankly I wouldn't have chosen that myself. I also think its a case where its low hanging fruit.

The opposition has areas like the children dying in foster are which are far more important and concerning, and instead we have discussions about whether she should've taken a different flight, ordered a smaller orange juice. Its just so off-putting in general.

The point of the article was in reference to the PC govt saying there wasn't any commercial flights available and then being caught in a lie when the WR found one.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I made a quick foray into supporting a political candidate once (sponsored golf tourneys, did luncheons, etc etc). From what I can tell a lot of the people running around in provincial politics were either a) professional politicians b) people looking to be professional politicians and c) people looking to influence professional politicians. Redford and her camp seems to be fitting my stereotype quite well.

The whole mentality (or at least the feeling I got) was that people were more interested in the Alberta gravy train than they were in actually doing any good for the province. Which is a shame considering how much money there is here (which I guess would be part of the problem).

You do know that Ms. Redford had a very distinguished career prior to entering provincial politics, right?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

She will be burned at the media stake because of the money spent with no results. Right or wrong.

Harper will have to probably taste that same fire.

Well, if so, the media and its audience are truly stupid.

[GP_Matt]

I won't blame her if Keystone is blocked as the US seems a bit unpredictable on this issue.
I do think that the PCs could get it approved right away if they wanted to, but the cost would be too high.
If the PCs announced some grand plan to punish emitters and drastically reduce the GHG emissions from the Oil Sands I think the pipeline would be quickly approved.

Whether or not that is a good idea though is far above my pay grade.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

What was the cost of Harper's trip? Government jet, etc.? Oh, wait. PSH doesn't disclose his costs does he?

What was the cost of Harper's little 'junket' to Israel? 200 people flew on the taxpayer's dime. Where's your faux rage over that?

Your outrage over government waste only applies to Party's you don't support it seems.

Now you're being silly too. There's a big difference between the Prime Minister of Canada going to the funeral (to which he had been invited by the way by the government of SA (Redford wasn't...)) and Redford going to the funeral. The PM was representing Canada, which includes Alberta, and was one of many world leaders there. Nobody in the SA government asked that Alberta be represented.

As to the Israel trip... The delegation included business leaders, and leaders from various communities, including cultural communities.
They were invited because they will be taking part in business meetings and cultural events on the trip.

The Israel trip was to benefit Canada.

Redford's SA trip was to benefit Redford.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Now you're being silly too. There's a big difference between the Prime Minister of Canada going to the funeral (to which he had been invited by the way by the government of SA (Redford wasn't...)) and Redford going to the funeral. The PM was representing Canada (which includes Alberta, and was one of many world leaders there. Nobody in the SA government asked that Alberta be represented.

As to the Israel trip... The delegation included business leaders, and leaders from various communities, including cultural communities.
They were invited because they will be taking part in business meetings and cultural events on the trip.

The Israel trip was to benefit Canada.

Redford's SA trip was to benefit Redford.

And yet you complain about her trip to India this year, which was a trade mission.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I eagerly look forward to rerun's thread on Harper's grandiose spending.

from your link:


30+ people? For a week? That's gotta cost a pretty penny.

Here's a list of some of the invitees:


http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/leg...east-trip.html

This seems cynical. Do you actually think the over $1,000 bucks that Robert Gabor donated to the Cons got him on the flight? That group and that trip was for Canada not for the Cons electoral chances in 20 or so Canadian ridings.

[Slava]

Here is another opposition party complaining about the trip, and its cost and why this debate is so stupid:

Alison Redford's $45k travel bill would buy groceries for 60 Alberta families of four for a month. #PayItBack #ableg #abparty

.@Premier_Redford said #Alberta had no money for #advancededucation but $45K for her trip was OK. #abed #abparty

(both from twitter and I wasn't sure how to paste them here to look like that)

Its so pointless. Great, it cost $45k. What does that have to do with feeding families? I suppose the government should spend nothing anymore because that $40b budget could feed families for the next decade or more? This is exactly the kind of stupidity we need less of. I also love the comment about the money for advanced education. We obviously should spend zero dollars going forward as a province because one area was told that there was no more money. I can't believe the lights are still on in the provincial buildings...there is literally no more money.

[troutman]

What is interesting to me - if there was no Wild Rose Party, many of the people that are attacking Redford would be defending her.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by troutman

What is interesting to me - if there was no Wild Rose Party, many the people that are attacking Redford would be defending her.

I joined the Wildrose party because I disliked what the PCs were doing. If Raj Sherman was the only alternative I would probably just ignore politics or possibly push for a change of leadership within the PC party.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Slava

Here is another opposition party complaining about the trip, and its cost and why this debate is so stupid:

Alison Redford's $45k travel bill would buy groceries for 60 Alberta families of four for a month. #PayItBack #ableg #abparty

.@Premier_Redford said #Alberta had no money for #advancededucation but $45K for her trip was OK. #abed #abparty

I agree with you that the connection is ridiculous. It is in line with the old "eat your dinner, don't you know there are starving kids in Africa".

However, can you really call the Alberta Party an opposition party? They don't have a single elected member and don't look to have any anytime soon. It seems a bit generous.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Redford's SA trip was to benefit Redford.

She went to a funeral. She didn't really benefit from it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I agree with you that the connection is ridiculous. It is in line with the old "eat your dinner, don't you know there are starving kids in Africa".

However, can you really call the Alberta Party an opposition party? They don't have a single elected member and don't look to have any anytime soon. It seems a bit generous.

Well they're accomplishing as much as the official opposition on this particular topic!

[Hatter]

$45k is a small amount in the grand scheme of things, but I really wish Ms. Redford would have been up front about the costs and why it is important to Alberta instead of playing dumb. Chartering a private jet is expensive, everyone knows that.

As a province we need to spend money to promote ourselves, and even a sombre event such as a funeral provides lobbying opportunities that could be a boon to our province. Why couldn't she have just explained that?

I don't have a problem with the spent money, but the whole ordeal feels underhanded when there was no reason for it to be.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by troutman

What is interesting to me - if there was no Wild Rose Party, many the people that are attacking Redford would be defending her.

Not me, I haven't supported the PC's since they moved away from balanced budgets, spent the sustainability fund and put us back into deep deficit. That includes Stelmach.

It is interesting though that since Redford was elected pretty much all of the Liberals now support her no matter what she does. They jump to her defense on every scandal and rarely if ever criticize her. The Alberta PC Party has been taken over from the inside, it is basically now a Liberal party in all but name. I don't love the Wildrose, some of their policy is stupid and some of their candidates were undesirable (even though those few never would have been elected) but they are the only party with any interest whatsoever in fiscal restraint.

The issue here isn't nickel and diming politicians, it's a complete disregard for taxpayer money.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This seems cynical. Do you actually think the over $1,000 bucks that Robert Gabor donated to the Cons got him on the flight? That group and that trip was for Canada not for the Cons electoral chances in 20 or so Canadian ridings.

Well, I'm not the one starting a thread about rampant public sector spending.

Hypocrisy is Hypocrisy.