Stephen Harper and Federal Conservatives War on Science

[Joborule]

Is this a conservative thing or more so a Harper and others thing? Seems really backwards to reduce progress in science & technology.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Is this a conservative thing or more so a Harper and others thing? Seems really backwards to reduce progress in science & technology.

It is difficult to continue to maintain outdated positions while progressive science is proving you wrong.

So, you remove the science and muddy the waters and now things are ideologically based rather than right or wrong.

Is the water table being polluted? Who knows, we fired the scientists and shuttered the building that was studying that and now claim plausible deniability.

It is truly an abhorrent, contemptuous move. Contemptuous of the democracy that installed them in leadership positions in the first place, quite frankly.

I don't think there has been a greater argument for an overhaul of the canadian political system than observing the last decade of conservative politics.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I'm going to register to vote in the next election for the first time just to vote against Harper (I'm 30).

Sorry, but for shame.

[Thor]

I find the conservative party becoming more like the US counterparts, still a far way away but damn I could not vote for these guys, and there are no real good choices in Canada right now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

In addition to using Hell and Holocaust references and how Canada is staunchly behind Israel, I believe our clearly partisan approach to the issue leans too heavily towards the support of Israel, at least publicly - it's just not balanced enough. Donations/Funding to Palestinian projects has all but dried up, and yet Harper continues to talk about a two-state solution. It seems like a contradictory position - I just feel like he speaks in rhetoric, and John Baird is no better.

Our country is taking an image hit around the world, and while that doesn't bother some, I am bothered by it. Canada is turning into the loud shill underling of the American foreign policy gamut. Not a fan of that direction.

I would also venture to say that relations with other Arabic countries in the Middle East are strongly tied to how much/little one supports the Palestinian cause.


Politics is 90% visual.

Harper did pledge $66 million in aid to Palestinians yesterday. I don't know how big that number is within context though (sounds like a lot to me, but maybe not enough).

Fair enough. Maybe Harper could have been a little more neutral in respects to Israel and Palestinians, but unless we show that we are friends with Israel, then they have no reason to care about our opinions.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sorry, but for shame.

Why is that?

[jofillips]

i was wondering if Harpers trip to Israel would be picked up on here - i personally found his speech quite controversial yet pointless in its own way

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Why is that?

I believe it is your duty to vote.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think there has been a greater argument for an overhaul of the canadian political system than observing the last decade of conservative politics.

Except for maybe the 10 years of Liberal reign directly preceding that.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

In addition to using Hell and Holocaust references and how Canada is staunchly behind Israel, I believe our clearly partisan approach to the issue leans too heavily towards the support of Israel, at least publicly - it's just not balanced enough. Donations/Funding to Palestinian projects has all but dried up, and yet Harper continues to talk about a two-state solution. It seems like a contradictory position - I just feel like he speaks in rhetoric, and John Baird is no better.

He pledged 66 million to Palestine.

So you're basically saying that you'd rather be 50% on the side of Israel, and 50% on the side of the "others", who want Israel wiped off the map?

I think I prefer our government's stance in this case. It's really okay to have an opinion, even if our culture as Canadians say that it isn't.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Regorium

He pledged 66 million to Palestine.

So you're basically saying that you'd rather be 50% on the side of Israel, and 50% on the side of the "others", who want Israel wiped off the map?

I think I prefer our government's stance in this case. It's really okay to have an opinion, even if our culture as Canadians say that it isn't.

The middle east is much more complex than to lump one side together as 'others'. It is possible to support the communities in Palestine without supporting Islamic terrorists or governments in neighbouring countries. Can't we be staunchly opposed to Islamic terrorism, and staunchly opposed to the continued ghettoization of Palestine? Honestly the way both sides have behaved in recent years, I don't see why anyone involved deserves Canada's friendship.

edit: to stay on topic: yeah, war on science bad too.

[puckluck2]

So sick of this clown running the show.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I think I prefer our government's stance in this case. It's really okay to have an opinion, even if our culture as Canadians say that it isn't.

No, it's not. Look at the US 2003-2008. George Bush/Donald Rumsfeld were foreign policy cowboys who completely ignored the will of their own people. It set American foreign policy back by long stretches, practically destroyed the Republican party, and caused the American public to lose faith in its government (and even today, can't even trust them).

Opinion is damaging, and I'd rather see Canada's well-respected reputation intact with Canadians not suffering the brunt of a narrow-minded government. This applies to both science and politics.

You seriously want Canada to go on a loudspeaker and trust that Harper's words are more valuable than the Canadian electorate that put him there?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Regorium

He pledged 66 million to Palestine.

So you're basically saying that you'd rather be 50% on the side of Israel, and 50% on the side of the "others", who want Israel wiped off the map?

I think I prefer our government's stance in this case. It's really okay to have an opinion, even if our culture as Canadians say that it isn't.

$300 million over the next 5 years in fact.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Except for maybe the 10 years of Liberal reign directly preceding that.

Right? I'm so glad those terrible days of surplus budgets, declining national debt, and strong economic growth are behind us!

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I believe it is your duty to vote.

Then it should be the duty of every political party to provide a candidate worth voting for. I've never liked Harper, and while I identify myself closest with the Liberals in my views there's no way I could vote for fools like Dion or Ignatieff in good conscience. Trudeau is better than them at least, but if it wasn't for Harper's continued war on common sense I still wouldn't be compelled to vote.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Right? I'm so glad those terrible days of surplus budgets, declining national debt, and strong economic growth are behind us!

They were so great that even Ontario turned their backs on them in droves. Those scandals were great. Not to mention they governed through the worst world wide recession in modern times. Bang up job.

But hey, the proof is the proof in the proof.

[jofillips]

from CBC i got the sense that the pledge of funds to Palestine is misleading - they've essentially halved the aid $ going to Palestine from previous figures...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by RyZ

They were so great that even Ontario turned their backs on them in droves. Those scandals were great. Not to mention they governed through the worst world wide recession in modern times. Bang up job.

But hey, the proof is the proof in the proof.

Ontario traditionally switches party loyalty when times change. The idea that Ontario always votes Liberal is a western myth.

In fact, since 1867, Ontario has formed 40 governments and 22 have been Conservative and 16 Liberal (2 third parties thrown in).

Federal results in most of Ontario follow a similar back and forth behaviour (certainly more voter diversity than Alberta):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...astern_Ontario

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...estern_Ontario

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...entral_Ontario

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...urham_and_York

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...rthern_Ontario

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

In addition to using Hell and Holocaust references and how Canada is staunchly behind Israel, I believe our clearly partisan approach to the issue leans too heavily towards the support of Israel, at least publicly - it's just not balanced enough. Donations/Funding to Palestinian projects has all but dried up, and yet Harper continues to talk about a two-state solution. It seems like a contradictory position - I just feel like he speaks in rhetoric, and John Baird is no better.

I don't see it that way at all. He took a stab at the rest of the world who is afraid to call a spade a spade - Israel is a democracy and the rest of the world judges Israel different from any other democratic country. Harper, and Israel, want peace. The only solution is a two state solution, because a single state solution will mean no more Jewish people in the region.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Our country is taking an image hit around the world, and while that doesn't bother some, I am bothered by it. Canada is turning into the loud shill underling of the American foreign policy gamut. Not a fan of that direction.

Absolutely, and rightly so. Harper said it best - standing with Israel is the right thing to do even if it makes you unpopular. I would rather be right and take an image hit. It is lunacy to side against Israel, period.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I would also venture to say that relations with other Arabic countries in the Middle East are strongly tied to how much/little one supports the Palestinian cause.

Sure, absolutely correct. History is proving that Israel is in trouble simply due to proximity to these nations. A democracy makes these places look very bad, and time caught up to these places. People are revolting. I would rather side with a country with human rights than a place that didn't.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Politics is 90% visual.

Go ahead and be political, I will side with what is right.