[Rumour] Flames closing in on extension with Russell (R.Millons)

[SuperMatt18]

Tanguay asked for a trade from Calgary the first time around, which is why he was labeled as a pouter. IIRC up until he was traded many of the fans on this site actually stood up for Tanguay and thought that Keenan was mishandling him. It was after we all learned that he asked for a trade that he was labeled as a pouter by the fan base.

I think he was unfairly labeled as pouting in the weeks after the Iginla trade because he was not producing and looked disinterested.

Think that was less pouting and more him knowing that he no longer had a role on this team and was probably told he was going to be moved. It wasn't that the fan base ran him out of town the second time around, he was moved because he no longer had a role.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My response to that would be, if Stajan is such a good locker room guy, such a good leader, why isn't Baertschi flourishing in the NHL right now?

Wha?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by indes

Wha?

He tried to make a point that Baertschi is struggling because he is pouting and that he could follow the example provided by Stajan.

I responded by pointing out how ridiculous that assertion was.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't like the Stajan contract. Sorry you disagree with me, but I feel like I have explained well enough why I don't like him as a player.

Still disagree? Fine. But these posts are unnecessary when there is an option to ignore a poster.

It does blow my mind though that people find it odd that others don't actually like Matt Stajan. Like, it's Matt Stajan.

Has nothing to with not liking Matt Stajan. Nobody is challenging you for not liking Matt Stajan.

People are challenging your statements that Stajan is a bad leader, a pouter, a whiner, etc. All unsubstantiated claims since the opposite has been said by those who are closer to the team.

There are lots of reasons to not like the Stajan signing, the first of which being that he is just not a good enough player, but the reasons you are specifically called out are what people are challenging

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Obviously term and $ dependent, but this is good news if true. When Burke said he would bring back 1/2 of our free agents Russel was the one I was hoping for most, and Stajan second based on my thoughts on organizational needs and potential trade value of our UFAs.

So for I'm thinking Burke's at least making the right personel choices, but lots more work to do to see how he does.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Has nothing to with not liking Matt Stajan. Nobody is challenging you for not liking Matt Stajan.

People are challenging your statements that Stajan is a bad leader, a pouter, a whiner, etc. All unsubstantiated claims since the opposite has been said by those who are closer to the team.

There are lots of reasons to not like the Stajan signing, the first of which being that he is just not a good enough player, but the reasons you are specifically called out are what people are challenging

The only thing people have challenged me on is his "leadership".

That fact alone just makes me feel stronger about my beliefs.

Unfortunately, leadership is an intangible quality that cannot be objectively defined or rated. We'd be here all week arguing about it.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My response to that would be, if Stajan is such a good locker room guy, such a good leader, why isn't Baertschi flourishing in the NHL right now?

Who's to say Baertschi wasn't following the all-immaculate leader?

If Stajan's #1 quality is his leadership during a rebuild, why has Monahan played at a 0.25 points/game clip over the last 20 games? Why is Baertschi in the AHL?

Going by this logic, shouldn't every player in the Blackhawks organization be superstars by virtue of being in the same room as Toews?

I don't agree with Stajan's contract (too long), but expecting players to make others that much better via leadership is vastly overestimating what leadership does for a team.

I don't claim to understand his contract, but that expectation is a bit high

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My response to that would be, if Stajan is such a good locker room guy, such a good leader, why isn't Baertschi flourishing in the NHL right now?

Who's to say Baertschi wasn't following the all-immaculate leader?

Haha! Wow! So we've finally solved the mystery of why our draft picks have been busting. It was Iginla's leadership this entire time! Who knew?

[JiriHrdina]

Can we please talk about Stajan in the Stajan thread.

[Ashasx]

Wow. You guys actually took that post at face value.

Do we need green text for everything or an emoticon that literally says "sarcasm" like over at HF?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He tried to make a point that Baertschi is struggling because he is pouting and that he could follow the example provided by Stajan.

I responded by pointing out how ridiculous that assertion was.

How is saying that Baertschi is struggling because he is pouting any more ridiculous then saying that Stajan is a bad signing because he is a pouter?

I also never said that Baertschi would be a full time NHLer by following Stajan's lead, you went there.

I just stated that from all accounts Stajan handled his time in the Brent Sutter dog house like a true professional. He continued to work hard in practice, played hard in his limited minutes on the fourth line, always answered the call from the media, and never made excuses or blamed anybody else for his struggles.

He would always state that he just needed to work better and prove himself to the coaching staff. He then did that late in Sutter's last season here when injuries hit and Stajan was the only option, then when a new coaching staff came in he worked hard to re-establish himself as a leader on the team.

That was in response to you saying that Stajan pouted when he was in the dog house, which was false.

I singled out Baertschi because it would get your attention but that is a work ethic and attitude that any young, aspriring NHLer can learn from.

[Enoch Root]

Very glad to hear this - Russell is a smooth-skating, reliable, puck-moving d-man and the Flames don't have many good defensemen.

For those saying sell high... he is 26 and just hitting his stride in the NHL. It is only 'selling high' if the asset is about to go down in value. There is absolutely no reason to think that his value has peaked.

To Ashasx saying there should be no long contracts in a rebuild... what? I doubt he gets more than 4 years and for a 26 year old, that isn't long term.

You can't ask 21 and 22 year old defensemen to carry tough minutes. A few can handle it, but most can't. We need a Giordano and a Russell back there.

If the kids can develop to the point where they are pushing Wideman and Russell off the team, AWESOME - then we trade those guys.

Until then (and I don't see that happening anytime soon) we need them.

Russell has to know he isn't going to hit the jackpot from one good season on a weak team. Having said that, he signed a one-year deal in order to get a chance to prove himself. He did that.

Now he will likely get something close to $3m per. And probably 3 years.

And I would be very happy with that.

[saillias]

I see now why Flames staff doesn't send PR people into message boards to help sway public opinion like the Oilers. Our fanbase has 2-3 set hockey conversations that anyone pays any attention to at any given time. Those guys would come and try to talk about Russell then be confused that everyone is still arguing about Kris-Mark Janko-Chuckowski.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

They sure made it sound last night in Sportsnet that Flames are open to bringing back Stempniak so believe we aren't done.

Burke is showing intellectual honesty and realizing that getting mid round picks for Stajan/Russell and perhaps Stempniak isn't going to help the rebuild. Rather dealing players with term (Hudler, Wideman and perhaps Backlund/Brodie) will bring back the pieces needed for the rebuild. Still think Cammy and Butler will go but not a fait a complit that none of the other ufas aren't re-signed.

I think Stempniak is more valuable than that. I agree Stajan isn't overly valuable in trade but I think teams like PIT, LA, DET ect. will be looking for wingers and Cammalleri will be the prized possession but Stempniak will be a nice add for anyone who misses out on the bigger fish.

I don't overly want to trade Hudler, Backlund or Brodie...

[HelloHockeyFans]

I mentioned this yesterday, but the Stajan and Russell signings are pretty ample evidence that Burke isn't a black / white guy when it comes to size and truculence, which is a good thing which should calm some of the worries about Gaudreau.

Burke mentioned upgrading the defence, so if he's re-signing Russell who gets moved? My guess would be Wideman and despite what moon says, he'll get a decent return back because he in fact isn't a garbage defenceman.

[CalgaryFan1988]

People talking about 3.5/4 mil a year for Russell?

He's had a good half season and was on waivers last year and went unclaimed. He needs a bridge contract to prove something. 2.5 max

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

People talking about 3.5/4 mil a year for Russell?

He's had a good half season and was on waivers last year and went unclaimed. He needs a bridge contract to prove something. 2.5 max

Agreed. He's coming off a 1yr/$1.5M contract. His previous contract was 3yrs/$1.3 AAV. I know he's having a great year, but I don't think he's done enough to warrant a $2M AAV raise with term.

Ideally I'd like to see a bridge contract as well, but I don't think we're going to see it, so I'm guessing something in the ballpark of 3yrs/$2.5-3M AAV

[macrov]

Originally Posted by devo22

re-sign Russell and draft Ekblad.

Ekblad - Giordano
Wideman - Brodie
Smid - Russell

I dont see Wideman lasting through the off season. Seems so disinterested.

Ekblad-Giordano
Brodie - Russel
Smid-Butler

[macrov]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Stajan is like Sam Gagner with less offence and slightly better defence. He's a player who plays in your top 6 if the team is bad and he'll probably put up his 0.5 points/game. He brings nothing to either the top or the bottom 6. A 4 year contract is obscene for a player of his ilk. Worse than the Boyd Gordon contract up in Edmonton.

Russell is not a bad player. He can be an effective bottom pairing defencemen and right now he looks a lot better than he actually is because he's being gifted top PP time and plays against the easiest competition of all defencemen on the team. (and he still isn't over 0.5 points/game). Bottom pairing defencemen do not deserve contracts over 2 years in length, nor should they be paid more than $2.5/year.

Matt Stajan is better than any guy who can step off the farm, or any guy we could attract as a UFA. It made perfect sense to sign him. And you don't want more than 1 rookie @ center on the team per year, so even if Jankowski or Grandlund was ready next year (which they're not) it would be imprudent to bring them up. Remember too that Reinhart and Colborne have already shifted to the wing.

Centre Depth 2014-15:
Backlund
Stajan
Monahan
Knight
Street
Jankowski
Granlund

A couple observations:
1) Its going to take a few years for Stajan to slide to number 5 on that chart.

2) Within 2 seasons, Monahan-Backlund will be a very competant top 6 duo, so the question becomes, is Stajan an above average 3rd line Centre, and if so, is the 3.1mln an over payment for that position? The answers are yes, above average. And no, in a 80mln cap world, 3.1 for a 3rd line centre is not an over-payment.

[Enoch Root]

Colborne?