[Rumour] Flames closing in on extension with Russell (R.Millons)

[codynw]

Originally Posted by devo22

I'm not pencilling him in, I'm just posting my dream scenario. I agree it will be tough to get him with the Oil Tank at full throttle already, but one can always hope, right?

Not you specifically, but it seems like many assume he is a lock to be on the Flames next year. I think they may be disappointed.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Just so I'm clear, your position is Stajan = bad, Russell = bad?

Stajan is like Sam Gagner with less offence and slightly better defence. He's a player who plays in your top 6 if the team is bad and he'll probably put up his 0.5 points/game. He brings nothing to either the top or the bottom 6. A 4 year contract is obscene for a player of his ilk. Worse than the Boyd Gordon contract up in Edmonton.

Russell is not a bad player. He can be an effective bottom pairing defencemen and right now he looks a lot better than he actually is because he's being gifted top PP time and plays against the easiest competition of all defencemen on the team. (and he still isn't over 0.5 points/game). Bottom pairing defencemen do not deserve contracts over 2 years in length, nor should they be paid more than $2.5/year.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Matt Stajan is not a leader. He whines, he dives, he cries. There's nothing he's good at. There's no advantage he brings for this team. He creates more chances for the opposition than almost anyone on the team. But I suppose he's a "nice guy". "Good in the locker room".

None of our young players should be heeding the advice of Matt Stajan.

You know, you were called out yesterday when you called Stajan a pouter. You of course didn't reply when you couldn't explain or give examples why. Unless you're ready to actually back up your claims today I'd give it up.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You know, you were called out yesterday when you called Stajan a pouter. You of course didn't reply when you couldn't explain or give examples why. Unless you're ready to actually back up your claims today I'd give it up.

You misunderstood the context of that post. Stajan pouts as much as Tanguay did, which is to say, nobody cannot prove either pouts.

Yet CalgaryPuck hated Tanguay all the same.

Stajan does, however, whine constantly during the game. He's kicked out of a significant portion of he faceoffs because he tries to cheat. He then complains to the ref for a good 5 seconds.

He dives and then whines at the ref when there's no call.

I just don't like Stajan's game. I don't think he brings anything to an NHL team. I don't think any of our young payers should be emulating him at all.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't respond to sad attempts at trolling.

I hate everything Matt Stajan represents in relation to this team and if Feaster had made that signing, this forum would have erupted.

Not trying to troll.

Just find it hilarious that you can make unsubstantiated claims about Stajan pouting for 2 years under Sutter, being a bad leader, and a whiner and nobody can question your opinion (even the media on twitter).

But then the second anybody says that Baertschi's attitude may be a reason for his treatment over the last year (even though the media has aluded to it) it is a full on defense of Baertschi, everybody saying anything bad is throwing him under the bus, and that Hartley and Burke have a biased grudge and hate Baertschi.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Stajan is like Sam Gagner with less offence and slightly better defence. He's a player who plays in your top 6 if the team is bad and he'll probably put up his 0.5 points/game. He brings nothing to either the top or the bottom 6. A 4 year contract is obscene for a player of his ilk. Worse than the Boyd Gordon contract up in Edmonton.

Russell is not a bad player. He can be an effective bottom pairing defencemen and right now he looks a lot better than he actually is because he's being gifted top PP time and plays against the easiest competition of all defencemen on the team. (and he still isn't over 0.5 points/game). Bottom pairing defencemen do not deserve contracts over 2 years in length, nor should they be paid more than $2.5/year.

Gifted PP time? He's 3rd among defenseman in PP time (behind Gio and Wideman) and has the 2nd most points on the PP (less than Gio, more than Wideman). Who exactly would you be putting out there instead of him?

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You know, you were called out yesterday when you called Stajan a pouter. You of course didn't reply when you couldn't explain or give examples why. Unless you're ready to actually back up your claims today I'd give it up.

I agree with MMF here I think I'll take Peter Maher's opinion over Ashax on this one. Peter on the Fan 960 discussing Stajan. Even when the media and fans were all over this guy. He still faced the music and always talked to the media and provided his insights. Never hid. I would call that being the opposite of being what Ashax is trying to presume to be. I'm not big on Stajan at all, but honestly we don't have anything better down on the farm. There is no NTC or NMC this time around as per Capgeek. So think of it as insurance until we have the assets available to upgrade later on.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not trying to troll.

Just find it hilarious that you can make unsubstantiated claims about Stajan pouting for 2 years under Sutter, being a bad leader, and a whiner and nobody can question your opinion (even the media on twitter).

But then the second anybody says that Baertschi's attitude may be a reason for his treatment over the last year (even though the media has aluded to it) it is a full on defense of Baertschi, everybody saying anything bad is throwing him under the bus, and that Hartley and Burke have a biased grudge and hate Baertschi.

My response to that would be, if Stajan is such a good locker room guy, such a good leader, why isn't Baertschi flourishing in the NHL right now?

Who's to say Baertschi wasn't following the all-immaculate leader?

If Stajan's #1 quality is his leadership during a rebuild, why has Monahan played at a 0.25 points/game clip over the last 20 games? Why is Baertschi in the AHL?

The very thing you claim he brings to this team is not actually happening.

And if you say Baertschi's not in the NHL because he's not good enough, why would you bring up the argument that he "pouts" and could "learn something" from Stajan?

[nik-]

I don't know. When I watch games, I notice Stajan goes down way too easy and is constantly complaining to the refs. I can't believe that you guys really aren't seeing that.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Stajan is like Sam Gagner with less offence and slightly better defence. He's a player who plays in your top 6 if the team is bad and he'll probably put up his 0.5 points/game. He brings nothing to either the top or the bottom 6. A 4 year contract is obscene for a player of his ilk. Worse than the Boyd Gordon contract up in Edmonton.

Russell is not a bad player. He can be an effective bottom pairing defencemen and right now he looks a lot better than he actually is because he's being gifted top PP time and plays against the easiest competition of all defencemen on the team. (and he still isn't over 0.5 points/game). Bottom pairing defencemen do not deserve contracts over 2 years in length, nor should they be paid more than $2.5/year.

For Stajan I wanted a max contract of 3 years and would have paid him $4M per to get it (assuming I had to sign him at all). I think his extension is just a necessary evil to a rebuild and hopefully a smarter approach than other flailing rebuilds. He does seem a little whiny on the ice, but from some accounts, he's a leader and good in the room and has really been a different player for a large part of the past 1.5 seasons.

As for Russell, I don't know where to place him. The defense looked significantly better last night than it did while Russell was injured. Is that because he's a difference maker or just because he's better than the guys that were replacing him? I don't know but a 2 year contract is a perfect contract to figure that out. Could he be a #4 defenseman on a good team? Maybe, but doubtful. He's about the same as Brodie, IMO.

[Vinsta13]

Hard to argue Russell hasn't been the brightest player on the Flames this season. He fits the mold of young puck moving dman that can play both ends of the ice. He was number 2 in shot blocks prior to his injury.

I think he is going to get a moderate raise much more then anyone is expecting. I'm thinking around 4 years 16 million.

He leads the flames dmen in points, still up there in blocked shots and can run a power play.

It is unreal how our Defense did a 180. We went from big, stay at home defenceman (Reggie, Pardy, Warrener etc) to small puck moving dmen. Hopefully Burke can find some middle ground as I can see one of Wideman, brodie or Russell shipped out.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My response to that would be, if Stajan is such a good locker room guy, such a good leader, why isn't Baertschi flourishing in the NHL right now?

Who's to say Baertschi wasn't following the all-immaculate leader?

If Stajan's #1 quality is his leadership during a rebuild, why has Monahan played at a 0.25 points/game clip over the last 20 games? Why is Baertschi in the AHL?

The very thing you claim he brings to this team is not actually happening.

And if you say Baertschi's not in the NHL because he's not good enough, why would you bring up the argument that he "pouts" and could "learn something" from Stajan?

I'm pretty sure that if Brian Burke is re-signing/looking at re-signing guys as soft/small as Stajan and Russell, they must be bringing something to the team.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't know. When I watch games, I notice Stajan goes down way too easy and is constantly complaining to the refs. I can't believe that you guys really aren't seeing that.

I see it too.

I don't notice him diving a ton, just being unaware of incoming contact.

Reminds me a bit of Sami Salo, tunnel vision that results in him being 'surprised' by contact.

I do also notice he's yapping at the refs a lot.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by formulate

I'm pretty sure that if Brian Burke is re-signing/looking at re-signing guys as soft/small as Stajan and Russell, they must be bringing something to the team.

Brian Burke also signed Mike Komisarek, so to act like he doesn't have his faults is silly.

In fact, I'd say if there's one thing Burke struggles with outside of drafting, it's signing/re-signing players.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You know, you were called out yesterday when you called Stajan a pouter. You of course didn't reply when you couldn't explain or give examples why. Unless you're ready to actually back up your claims today I'd give it up.

You know who's a pouter? Ashasx is a pouter. I don't expect everyone to be on board with what's going on this season or like every player and coach or manager on the team but holy smokes this guy has been crying all season about pretty well everything and anything. Arguing is futile because the guy just isn't happy when it comes to the Flames.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My response to that would be, if Stajan is such a good locker room guy, such a good leader, why isn't Baertschi flourishing in the NHL right now?

Who's to say Baertschi wasn't following the all-immaculate leader?

Being a good leader in the locker room doesn't mean you will just make any young player in to a bonafide NHL star. It means you will show them the ropes and help them learn the in's and out's of the NHL.

If you go back to training camp you had the young players usually name a couple names when it came to veterans who were good mentors in the locker room: Gio, Cammy, and Stajan.

If Stajan's #1 quality is his leadership during a rebuild, why has Monahan played at a 0.25 points/game clip over the last 20 games? Why is Baertschi in the AHL?

You can't teach a player to put up points in the NHL (Monahan), and you can't magically make a player bigger, more physical, and stronger mentally (Baertschi).

Is Monahan working hard every night? Is he committing to a 200ft game? I would say those are things that the leadership in the room helps to facilitate (and this is not just Stajan- it is all of the veterans that have to help drive this attitude).

The very thing you claim he brings to this team is not actually happening.

According to you.

The management team, and coaching staff must obviously think he is doing a great job as a leader and on the ice as they gave him a 4 year contract.

The media that is close to the team (Millions, Francis, Maher, Loubardias) all have praised Stajan's leadership and have praised him for his work ethic.

I will take their word for it over anything that you can say.

And if you say Baertschi's not in the NHL because he's not good enough, why would you bring up the argument that he "pouts" and could "learn something" from Stajan?

Because maybe the mental part is a big reason of why Baertschi not good enough right now.

He obviously has the skill and talent to be in the NHL. It is his mental game that needs to improve for him to become a full time NHLer (becoming stronger as he matures will help too), and a big part of that is being confidence in himself and not getting down on himself when faced with adversity from the coaching staff and management.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You misunderstood the context of that post. Stajan pouts as much as Tanguay did, which is to say, nobody cannot prove either pouts.

Yet CalgaryPuck hated Tanguay all the same.

Stajan does, however, whine constantly during the game. He's kicked out of a significant portion of he faceoffs because he tries to cheat. He then complains to the ref for a good 5 seconds.

He dives and then whines at the ref when there's no call.

I just don't like Stajan's game. I don't think he brings anything to an NHL team. I don't think any of our young payers should be emulating him at all.

Your comparison to Tanguay's situation effectively makes you call yourself out.

We can prove Tanguay was a pouter because it was confirmed when he left Calgary the first time. His poutiness over PP time and such under Keenan was actually written about, and he complained to Sutter midway through the season.

So unless you have a similar background on Stajan, I would refrain from maligning the player's attitude.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You know who's a pouter? Ashasx is a pouter. I don't expect everyone to be on board with what's going on this season or like every player and coach or manager on the team but holy smokes this guy has been crying all season about pretty well everything and anything. Arguing is futile because the guy just isn't happy when it comes to the Flames.

I don't like the Stajan contract. Sorry you disagree with me, but I feel like I have explained well enough why I don't like him as a player.

Still disagree? Fine. But these posts are unnecessary when there is an option to ignore a poster.

It does blow my mind though that people find it odd that others don't actually like Matt Stajan. Like, it's Matt Stajan.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Brian Burke also signed Mike Komisarek, so to act like he doesn't have his faults is silly.

In fact, I'd say if there's one thing Burke struggles with outside of drafting, it's signing/re-signing players.

I'm not offering an opinion on Burke's skills as a GM. I'm simply saying that Stajan and Russell are not anything close to being 'Brian Burke players'. So, if he's willing to retain them, they must be bringing something else of value, no?

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You know who's a pouter? Ashasx is a pouter. I don't expect everyone to be on board with what's going on this season or like every player and coach or manager on the team but holy smokes this guy has been crying all season about pretty well everything and anything. Arguing is futile because the guy just isn't happy when it comes to the Flames.

This is the best post in this thread.