Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Goaltending is one area the Flames haven't lost a step year over year. Kipper hadn't been Kipper IMO for at least two seasons prior to his retirement. The level of play we are getting from Ramo and Berra is at least equal to what Kipper gave us last year, if not better.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Goaltending is one area the Flames haven't lost a step year over year. Kipper hadn't been Kipper IMO for at least two seasons prior to his retirement. The level of play we are getting from Ramo and Berra is at least equal to what Kipper gave us last year, if not better.

Agreed. Kiprusoff had been living off of goodwill for a while.

Whether or not Ramo or Berra will be legitimate starters in the NHL is still to be determined, but considering that this current version of the Flames is probably the weakest we have ever seen, the results so far have been satisfactory at the very least.

We're still at the stage of the rebuild that throwing darts is an acceptable tactic for trying to find talent, and both goalies are at least worthy of that given the results.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

ummm not really. Berra looks like he is a younger version of MacDonald, and i can't say that Ramo looks like a legit starter. All i see is 2 goalies fighting it out to see if they can be very good back-ups. That said i will gladly give them the rest of the year to prove me wrong.

Errrr? If I was going to compare either to MacDonald it'd be Ramo because they both can be on the slower end when moving side to side.

I'm not sure why anyone would declare love for one over the other at this point. They've got had good games and bad games and neither has really stood out from the pack.

At this point they look a bit better than the average guy you could yank up from the AHL or waivers (MacDonald/Bachman... those types of guys).. but hopefully they continue to improve... really no harm in having Ortio spend another year in the AHL next year and bring along Gillies slowly.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Errrr? If I was going to compare either to MacDonald it'd be Ramo because they both can be on the slower end when moving side to side.

I'm not sure why anyone would declare love for one over the other at this point. They've got had good games and bad games and neither has really stood out from the pack.

At this point they look a bit better than the average guy you could yank up from the AHL or waivers (MacDonald/Bachman... those types of guys).. but hopefully they continue to improve... really no harm in having Ortio spend another year in the AHL next year and bring along Gillies slowly.

I compare Berra to MacDonald because both seem to be out of position and have to make acrobatic saves to make up for it. Some times they don't get those saves. Maybe Berra can change that, but he is 27 ( almost 28), and might be set in his ways. Also when some goalies change parts of their game, it opens another can of worms in another part of their game.

I am certainly not giving Ramo any more love than i am giving Berra. Both seem like they could be legit back-ups. The one thing that gives Ramo the edge over Berra for next year is the insurance contract ( Feaster, LOL). I don't believe Burke will stand pat if he thinks both goalies are looking like back-ups at the end of the year. Nobody is trading for Ramo and $2 + million, so he automatically gets to stay.

[tvp2003]

I'm just glad both goalies are getting playing time and that they're both "earning" it by playing relatively well when given the opportunity. Don't think any of our recent losses can be attributed to poor goaltending, which could not be said earlier in the season.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Maybe Berra can change that, but he is 27 ( almost 28), and might be set in his ways.

Not a big difference, but he's 26 and about to turn 27 (Jan 3rd).

[btimbit]

Hartley says Berra starts tomorrow

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think they have both improved since their first 10 games each. I think nobody knows how much more they can or will improve. To say that this is what they are is wrong. Lots and lots of goalies mature later, and as for the 'adjusting to the North American ice excuse is getting old', why? Goalies born in North America and having their entire development on North American ice still usually take a long time developing into NHL goalies.

Berra and Ramo as far as I can see haven't given any reasons as to why they can't continue getting better and perhaps even becoming legit starters. They have both been better than any backup the Flames have had in countless years, and I think they have both been better than MacDonald.

Ride out the season and see how they are still doing. There is no rush to replace them - they aren't losing games for the Flames at this point by what I see out there, and their stats for the last few weeks have backed that claim up as well.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Hartley says Berra starts tomorrow

If so, I hope Ramo gets the next start against Tampa. Would be nice for him to pick up the win against his old team.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Goaltending is one area the Flames haven't lost a step year over year. Kipper hadn't been Kipper IMO for at least two seasons prior to his retirement. The level of play we are getting from Ramo and Berra is at least equal to what Kipper gave us last year, if not better.

Sorry, can't take your post seriously after this sentence. Kipper was in god mode the year before last, and should have been in Vezina because he kept a very bad team in the playoff hunt. Can't let you defame one of the greatest Flames ever.

[Yrebmi]

Is there some rule that prevents a team from swapping goalies for the shoot out?

Seeing Bera so dominant in the skills competition, I am wondering why teams don't keep a backup goalie practiced as a shoot out specialist. Can still play a game when called on, but any game goes to SO he's your guy.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Is there some rule that prevents a team from swapping goalies for the shoot out?

Seeing Bera so dominant in the skills competition, I am wondering why teams don't keep a backup goalie practiced as a shoot out specialist. Can still play a game when called on, but any game goes to SO he's your guy.

I know Mac-T did it at least once with the Oilers a few years ago (I think it was the first year after the lockout).

I think the problem is that any slight benefit you gain with a better shootout goalie is cancelled out by putting in a cold goalie, who hasn't done anything since the warm-up almost 3 hours earlier.

[tvp2003]

Update: Based on recent play, it seems Ramo has emerged as the more dependable, consistent goalie. Here are the numbers:

Ramo's stats after 20 starts:

8-9-3, 2.80 GAA, .903, 1 SO

Berra's stats after 20 starts:

5-13-2, 3.03 GAA, .899

Interestingly, Berra is a perfect 3-0 in the shootout. However, his other two wins have been in OT, meaning he still has not recorded a regulation win in 20 starts (!).

If you look at Ramo's splits, you can see the difference between his October performance versus his more recent performance:

Oct: 2-3-1, 3.49, .888
Nov: 1-1-0, 2.65, .896
Dec: 3-2-2, 2.25, .922
Jan: 2-3-0, 2.83, .900

Berra's splits are interesting as well; his numbers look dominant in December (better GAA and Sv% than Ramo), but he only earned 2 wins against 5 losses:

Nov: 3-6-2, 3.51, .888
Dec: 2-5-0, 2.02, .929
Jan: 0-2-0, 4.05, .857

[btimbit]

Still a close race IMO but edge definitely goes to Ramo at this point.

[nik-]

For them having stats so similar, my confidence is way higher in Ramo. Probably because he doesn't swim and lose his net so often. Berra is terrifying sometimes.

[Fire]

I can't see Burke going with both Ramo and Berra next season. Ramo has been a bit better and has a year left on his contract so I don't see Berra returning. Berra is a UFA so maybe he gets traded before the deadline for a late round draft pick if a team is desperate for a goalie?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Update: Based on recent play, it seems Ramo has emerged as the more dependable, consistent goalie. Here are the numbers:

Ramo's stats after 20 starts:

8-9-3, 2.80 GAA, .903, 1 SO

Berra's stats after 20 starts:

5-13-2, 3.03 GAA, .899

Interestingly, Berra is a perfect 3-0 in the shootout. However, his other two wins have been in OT, meaning he still has not recorded a regulation win in 20 starts (!).

If you look at Ramo's splits, you can see the difference between his October performance versus his more recent performance:

Oct: 2-3-1, 3.49, .888
Nov: 1-1-0, 2.65, .896
Dec: 3-2-2, 2.25, .922
Jan: 2-3-0, 2.83, .900

Berra's splits are interesting as well; his numbers look dominant in December (better GAA and Sv% than Ramo), but he only earned 2 wins against 5 losses:

Nov: 3-6-2, 3.51, .888
Dec: 2-5-0, 2.02, .929
Jan: 0-2-0, 4.05, .857

I'm still thinking small sample size, considering how small the differences are and how different the team plays from day to day.

[Stay Golden]

Ramo has emerged to be slightly better than Berra. But neither I would want to keep long term.
With that being said the Flames being where they are might be 25% only the fault of the goalies.
Ramo is kept the 1 year remaining. Berra only a 1 year but I see him being shopped and promoting Ortio.

[strombad]

Out of curiosity, and maybe it's been posted already, but does someone have the time to come up with the GF during Berra's starts vs. Ramo's starts?

It would be a slight indicator of team performance during the playing time of each tender.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fire

I can't see Burke going with both Ramo and Berra next season. Ramo has been a bit better and has a year left on his contract so I don't see Berra returning. Berra is a UFA so maybe he gets traded before the deadline for a late round draft pick if a team is desperate for a goalie?

Absolutely no chance of that happening and I expect the team will part ways with Berra (not NHL material) and keep Ramo on as a backup for the final year of his deal as he's probably not tradable. Burke will work hard to bring in a goaltender via trade or free agency.