General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[landshark]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Not asking to be a ****, but more out of interest because I know San Jose has a pretty loyal following. How many Sharks fans would you say were there?

Not many. Some, but not like an orig 6 game. The place was full and rockin' - period! I haven't seen a reg season game like that in PHO for years regardless who the opp was...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Isn't that 8.1 Million loss quite a bit less than it was before? Weren't they losing 20+ million the last few years?

The city was subsidizing the NHL's losses the previous two years to the tune of $25 million each. So this is definitely an improvement.

Trout - I only skimmed a couple of the stories. Is that $8 million loss the total loss (AMF + debt servicing) or just a loss on the management fee?

Also, lol on the one suggestion of renegotiating the fee. That will play out in one of two ways:

City: "Lets renegotiate"
Team: "No"

or

City: "Lets renegotiate"
Team: "No"
City: "We'll try to find a way to cancel the lease then"
Team: "Sure. We'll just move to Quebec/Seattle/Hamilton/K-W/Kansas Cty/Las Vegas and rake in profits."

[Brannigans Law]

Coyotes aren't just competitive; they're winning a lot of god damn hockey games. Now they have "stable" ownership. Still bottom feeders in attendance. This experiment is over in 4 years imo.

[Scoopdogg]

Originally Posted by landshark

Thanks very much Troutman for this series of updates. I still find the story interesting, but not enough to seek it out myself...

On attendance... Numbers never seem to line up with what the eyballs see. There were LOTS of games in PHO in the last few years where the stated attendance seemed like a lie when you looked up at the empty seats in the stands.

But that Dec 27 game against the sharks was a different story... it really was a sold out crowd. It was noticeably different - there were no empty seats in the lower level and the crowd was really into the game (darned good game). I came away thinking that maybe, just maybe they can make a go of it... maybe...

I was at the Dec 27th game and had a hard time believing this team in struggling. The place was packed and the atmosphere was better then any regular season game I've been to at the Dome.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by getbak

I had Hooters Buffalo Chicken Fingers when I went to a game there a few years ago. Probably the best "arena" food I've ever had.

I had a few "bombers" of Dos Equis at a game there last year. Way better than the $8+ bud at the dome. Its a great arena, but its a shame that its in the middle of nowhere and no one cares.

[Jordan!]

NAILLLLED IT

[DOOM]

Yoho overestimated by 5000 fans, thanks for reminding us.

[nik-]

I wonder what forum Bouw and Arrow will be at when that loss counter hits $50 million.

[irrevocable]

Originally Posted by nik-

I wonder what forum Bouw and Arrow will be at when that loss counter hits $50 million.

Who cares?

[jayswin]

That's awesome, BouwandArrow. I can cheer for hockey like you too.

Hey, my favorite team isn't the Flames anymore, now it's the Ducks. Hey, my team is in first place!!!!! Wooohooooo, stupid Flames fans, look at where your team is and then look where my team is!!

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by flameswin

That's awesome, BouwandArrow. I can cheer for hockey like you too.

Hey, my favorite team isn't the Flames anymore, now it's the Ducks. Hey, my team is in first place!!!!! Wooohooooo, stupid Flames fans, look at where your team is and then look where my team is!!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The city was subsidizing the NHL's losses the previous two years to the tune of $25 million each. So this is definitely an improvement.

Trout - I only skimmed a couple of the stories. Is that $8 million loss the total loss (AMF + debt servicing) or just a loss on the management fee?

Also, lol on the one suggestion of renegotiating the fee. That will play out in one of two ways:

City: "Lets renegotiate"
Team: "No"

or

City: "Lets renegotiate"
Team: "No"
City: "We'll try to find a way to cancel the lease then"
Team: "Sure. We'll just move to Quebec/Seattle/Hamilton/K-W/Kansas Cty/Las Vegas and rake in profits."

you don't think that was the plan from the start?

Why do you think there was the 5 years or $50 million in losses, whichever comes first clause. Those new owners want this to fail for that exact reason. Just like Katz bought the Oilers to get his arena to boost Katz Group owned real estate value. There are no White Knights in billion dollar businesses.

[troutman]

Announced attendance vs Flames = 10,229

You have to assume there were a few thousand Flames fans at the game. Also, it would seem there are many no-shows on weeknights. Some tickets distributed are not being used (surely there was less than the 10,229 announced).

Weeknight games are going to be a challenge. They should try as much as possible to play on weekends, and play the bulk of their home games after the New Year.

[Lanny's Stache]

You have to think that the awfully boring style of hockey that the Coyotes are playing can not be helping their attendance issues. Sure they are winning games, but who cares if they are boring everyone.

For a casual fan, there can't be much interest in driving across town to watch that type of hockey. If they played more of an up tempo game, it would do a lot to help out with the more casual fans in that market.

[Joborule]

It's boring to us because we're not scoring goals. Coyotes are 6th in the league at scoring goals. So they're doing it enough to get the howl audio playing an ungodly amount of times at their home games.

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by troutman

Announced attendance vs Flames = 10,229

You have to assume there were a few thousand Flames fans at the game. Also, it would seem there are many no-shows on weeknights. Some tickets distributed are not being used (surely there was less than the 10,229 announced).

Weeknight games are going to be a challenge. They should try as much as possible to play on weekends, and play the bulk of their home games after the New Year.

We were, unfortunately, at the game last night and the attandance was most definitely boosted by the Student Night promo that they had. The upper sections were full of students, almost no seats left on either side of the ice, but the lower bowl was almost 1/3 full. The last time we were here (Oct 2013) it was the same with the lower bowl but the upper bowl was almost empty as well.

[troutman]

You can see what Glendale is paying to Ice Arizona here:

http://www.glendaleaz.com/followyour...rID=0000064946

[Roughneck]

Yikes.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by nik-

you don't think that was the plan from the start?

Why do you think there was the 5 years or $50 million in losses, whichever comes first clause. Those new owners want this to fail for that exact reason. Just like Katz bought the Oilers to get his arena to boost Katz Group owned real estate value. There are no White Knights in billion dollar businesses.

Given Glendale was over a barrel in these negotiations, building an out clause was astute. I do think the new owners are going to give an honest effort in Phoenix. But they also aren't willing to sink their life savings into this. Logically, this was never going to be an instant turn around. An increase of 15% in announced attendance over 2011-12 is a good start, but it is the trend year over year that will matter most.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Yikes.

Was that last night? That's just shameful.