Except that North Korean's don't have access to the open internet, and most of them don't have smartphones. In fact the only ones that do have access to these technologies are the ones in government that are going on.
The other big difference is that China's government was not based on dynastic succession, so you always had a chance of minor reformers coming into power after the death of Mao and his sycophants. In North Korea the decisions all come from one, that's not a fertile ground for change, and since technology as a prime cause of reform doesn't and won't exist in North Korea you won't see change via youtube.
The only way that reform comes to North Korea is through a act of brutality that's not likely to happen for a long time.
Don't disagree with anything you've said here, just wondering if there is a situation you can see where China (or anyone really, S.K., Japan, U.S. NATO or UN based coalition) intervening without it being a direct attack against said group?
Like perhaps if N.K. takes a huge leap in the technology of their ballistic missiles or something.
I don't see intervention unless the North Korea Military either crosses the 49th en force. Or they hit Seoul or Japan with either missiles or artillary.
Other then that and it sounds brutally cold, its North Korean's killing North Koreans and saving that country is economic bad news for any country that intervenes.
Logically the UN should be the group to do something, but they really don't have the guts to do anything and beyond that China would veto any UN action.
The new geopolitical speak for North Korea is to take the long view and hope that it falls apart on its own, and democracy springs up spontaneously.
I have my doubts that it would do it without help.
The country that could do something is China, but the organization the MSS isn't like the KGB it looks internally at China.
From what I've read intelligence services have tried to penetrate the NK government (CIA, RVS, MSS, Japan's Intelligence Services) and its been a failure everytime because its such a closed and paranoid government.
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Its funny, I was sitting around watching T.V. and my eyes wandered to my bookshelf in my living room and I have a few of George Orwell's books and I thought about how Animal Farm was written about the communist revolution in Russia and the coming to power of Stalin who installed the great system of totalitarianism.
Then my eye's wandered over to 1984 when I was basically in Junior high school and we had the big debates about what was coming true in that book in comparison to modern society.
But if you read that book and you look at North Korea you realize that they never left 1984 and in fact its been 1984 since Kim Il-Sung was put into power by Stalin himself.
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Its really sad to mock the French like this. That country was rolled over and no nation could have stopped that German onslaught, sorry but its insulting and incredibly unfair to all living and dead French veterans.
Cracked took on 5 of the worst nationalistic BS in this great article:
Quote:
Where We've Seen It:
The image of the "cowardly Frenchman" has appeared in virtually every media possible, from movies to children's shows and video games, right down to the personal sentiments of Captain America (and he wouldn't lie to you; dishonesty makes Captain America vomit in rage).
Why it's All Bull####:
Ask Rudyard Kipling, who once famously said about the French: "Their business is war, and they do their business." And boy howdy, a quick glance at France's history shows business is booming:
Since 387 BC, France has fought 168 major wars against such badasses as the Roman Empire, the British Army and the Turkish forces. Their track record isn't too shabby, either: They've won 109, lost 49 and drawn (or as close as you can "draw" a war) 10 times. Professional boxers have been crowned world champions on ####tier records than that.
And while it is true that France surrendered to Germany relatively early in WWII, that was only because they hadn't picked themselves up after WWI yet. And WWI (despite being an entire "I" lower) wasn't exactly an anemic playground chickenfight--the French suffered about 5.7 million casualties (the war killed or wounded an incredible 37 million people worldwide).
So yes, the next time around they let the Germans take over officially, but they never actually stopped fighting: the French resistance was one of the most enduring symbols of Nazi opposition in Europe. The resistance was the originator of the archetypal trench coat wearing merchants of bloody death you see in countless action movies and video games today. They blew up bridges, staged daring night raids, slit German throats while generally looking fantastic (if a little ennui-stricken) while doing it.
And not a damn thing's changed since then: France is the most underestimated military force in the world, with the third highest military spending on the planet and an estimated 300 nuclear warheads at their disposal. So basically... we might want to knock off the "coward" talk now, lest we find the impeccably-styled death squads smoking their thin cigarettes on our doorstep.
Not to mention, while they didn't fare very well in the WW's (and like you mentioned, that was about circumstance, not because they weren't tough or brave) they did have one of the larger empires in the world history and some big years of conquest.
Yeah, it's just not a fair stereotype. It's all about the US chest thumping and the 'we saved your asses attitude many of them have about WW2,' which always made me a bit angry because countries like Canada and Australia who were much smaller were in the wars from the starts and made much larger contributions per capita, and countries like France and Poland really saw the worst of it and needed help much sooner.
Course, Americans know sheet about history and geography for the large part.
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Not to mention, while they didn't fare very well in the WW's (and like you mentioned, that was about circumstance, not because they weren't tough or brave) they did have one of the larger empires in the world history and some big years of conquest.
Yeah, it's just not a fair stereotype. It's all about the US chest thumping and the 'we saved your asses attitude many of them have about WW2,' which always made me a bit angry because countries like Canada and Australia who were much smaller were in the wars from the starts and made much larger contributions per capita, and countries like France and Poland really saw the worst of it and needed help much sooner.
Course, Americans know sheet about history and geography for the large part.
When you look at the geography, France is a very difficult country to defend. The geography practically facilitates German invasion. It's certainly not an island like Britain.
There is a reason why when the U.S. tries to build consensus and coalitions on military matters, France is one of the go-to countries.
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Its really sad to mock the French like this. That country was rolled over and no nation could have stopped that German onslaught, sorry but its insulting and incredibly unfair to all living and dead French veterans.
Cracked took on 5 of the worst nationalistic BS in this great article:
Meh, I served with them and said it to them......I am good, thanks for watching out for my moral compass.
Where do you stand on the following:
Calling Brits #### Eaters
Mocking the US military for over specialization
When you look at the geography, France is a very difficult country to defend. The geography practically facilitates German invasion. It's certainly not an island like Britain.
There is a reason why when the U.S. tries to build consensus and coalitions on military matters, France is one of the go-to countries.
In WW2 I don't blame the average French Soldier for the loss, they fought as bravely as they could.
They had ineffectual leadership that was stuck fighting the last war that didn't see that the world had entered the world of mobility warfare even though the German's had demonstrated it prior to moving around the French static defenses.
the French have been more failed by poor leadership then anything else.
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aye the french sure do get ripped a lot!
I'm fascinated by De Gaulle and the Free French history in ww2 - for example have a look at the battle of Bir Hakeim for stunning french bravery that mattered.
The other thing that amazed me is how much De Gaulle was viewed by the Americans (in ww2) as Churchills puppet - and as such ignored in favour of dealing with vichy instead.
Meh, I served with them and said it to them......I am good, thanks for watching out for my moral compass.
Where do you stand on the following:
Calling Brits #### Eaters
Mocking the US military for over specialization
I don't do either, and I'm just commenting on a very common insult done to the French, usually done by American's who have little or no grasp on history and not to mention how they joined the war only after being attacked and then have the balls to mock the French and tell them how they saved their asses in WW2.
I think we've all been guilty at mocking the French, I am no different but many years ago I read a great article about how truly insulting that attitude and mocking really is and it really stuck.
We admire and make hero's out of our veterans in Canada, justifiably so, yet we are so ready to mock and make light of another nation's vets and their people who were unfortunately situated in 2 world wars next to one of the great war machines in history who rolled over all of Europe with near ease.
Fine if you genuinely believe they are cowards, surrender monkeys etc, but to me that is the height of an insult to anyone in uniform and just because WW2 is over 8 decades ago does not make the insult any less out of line. Its amazing how casually people make this joke, and call me the fun police for pointing this out but its high time people learned how insulting it is.
Fine if you genuinely believe they are cowards, surrender monkeys etc, but to me that is the height of an insult to anyone in uniform and just because WW2 is over 8 decades ago does not make the insult any less out of line. Its amazing how casually people make this joke, and call me the fun police for pointing this out but its high time people learned how insulting it is.
I don't think they are cowards. I have worked with them and know different. As has been mentioned I think they have and still do have some poor leadership. We took over a base they built in the low ground, surrounded by unhappy people.
I will say the French has got one thing right, wine with their fresh rats.
I posted a very commonly made joke by people in the military. I also, don't think the RCR really #### chickens, but it is enjoyable to mock them. I don't think that the soldiers I worked with really thought all I did was check ######s.
Pommies are #### eaters, trust me I have eaten in their messes, and seen how they have been treated.
I have also been told by a US soldier they didn't/couldn't start a generator that had the instructions on the inside (it was easy to start). So over specialized, yip.
There is macabre humour in the military that often get's missunderstood.
7 RCA used to be known as the Royal Chinese/Cantonese Artillery (Due the fact that a certain Asian Capt. placed an ad in the local Chinese language paper, informing immigrants that they could be fast tracked to citizenship if they joined 7 RCA. They were flooded with Asian recruits, and had 105 dets that only spoke Cantonese )
The Bytown Gunners (Founded in 1855, they are the oldest serving Artillery regiment in Canada, likewise at a time when the Nation's Capital was named Bytown after Col. By)
The Dirty Four Dozen:[12] most likely a play on The Dirty Dozen, where “48” equals four dozen
The Forty-Eighths
The Glamour Boys:
According to Farley Mowat's The Regiment, the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment were known as "Ploughjockeys" due to their rural recruiting area, while the 48th Highlanders—who recruited from Toronto—were known as "Glamour Boys." This origin is also cited by the The War Amps.[13]
An alternate explanation comes from the blue puttees they wore; during an inspection by King George VI in World War II, the regiment wore blue puttees due to a shortage of khaki material. The king reputedly liked the blue puttees better than the khaki ones worn by the rest of the brigade, and authorized the regiment to keep them. This is the origin cited by the regiment itself.[12]
'the Ladies From Hell' - A name given to them by their German adversaries (Die Damen aus der Hölle) as they fought in kilts in World War I (and continued to until 1940)
Double-doubles, from the similarity in colour between their tan berets and coffee with cream (a double-double is a Tim Hortons coffee with two measures of cream and two of sugar)
ISOR-Eye Sore
C-Sort of: from the pronunciation of "CSOR" as "See-Soar."
The Fuzz de Sher [11], from Fus de Sher, or just the Fuzz, particularly by cross-town rivals, the Sherbrooke Hussars. The regiment's newsletter is also titled Fuz.
Gustav Gone for Good or Good God, Forgot the Gustav! Used after the regiment left an 84 mm Carl Gustav anti-tank weapon by the side of a road after a weekend exercise and then drove off. When the mistake was realized, and a party sent to retrieve it, the weapon had vanished.
Ladies from Hades: from the First World War; a jocular reference to their kilted battle dress and their fierce fighting.[22]
Highlanders: This name can also be applied to other highland regiments, but is used mainly for this regiment. They could also be derived from the common name (highlander) of the unit's cap badge.
Pud-Pulling Cowboys Learning Italian[30]: extremely derogatory name that is both a mockery the Patricias' geographic location in Western Canada and an allusion to them being D-Day Dodgers.
Peanuts, Popcorn, Candy, Licorice and Ice Cream
Please Protect Canada's Little Idiots
Piss Pot Cleaners and Latrine Inspectors
The Mickey Mouse Brigade - this may be a reference to a popular insult that was sung to members of the regiment to the Mickey Mouse Club theme music: "M-I-C-K-E-Y P-P-C-L-I"
Princess Pocahontas' Cute Little Indians
Poor Pricks Can't Leave Italy - From WW2, the PPCLI was fighting in Italy and was not present for the Normandy landings
VP: from Victoria Patricia, original colonel-in-chief. Often preceded by battalion number.
Vicious Patricias: from the VP on the dress uniform's buttons, which from above actually stand for "Victoria Patricia"
The Van Doos: from an English corruption of the Frenchvingt-deux or “twenty-two”. This name dates back to the Great War where the 22e was the first battalion raised in which French was used as the language of command and the only French speaking unit that served in the front-lines.
Les hosties de queues plates: (literally, "the communion wafer flat-tails". Better translated as "the damn flat-tails": hostie is a mild and common Canadian-French curse) from the beaver on the regimental badge. Seldom used within the regiment or the 5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group anymore. Considered vulgar.
Les Vingt-Deux: the Twenty-Twos.
Régiment Canadien Français: literally, "French Canadian Regiment."
The RCDs: taken directly from their shoulder titles.
Bambi: taken from their cap badge.
Dancing (Prancing) Goats: their cap badge.
Dragoons: Shortened title.
Drags: reference made to the RCD in early (1920s–30s) editions of the regimental journal of The Royal Canadian Regiment, which shared the Toronto and ST. John's, Que., garrisons with the RCD
The Dragons: common non-service mispronunciation of the word. Known to irritate RCD troopers to no end, and thus, is sometimes used deliberately for that purpose.
Deer-Jumping Fairies: derogatory term for the springbok in their badge. Usually used by Strats.
The Royals[35] (incorrect, but often used colloquially by those who do not know this is more properly used to refer to The Royal Regiment of Canada)
Pukkas: Second World War, 1st Division, 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade was an Ontario brigade with the 48th Highlander ("The Glamour Boys"), the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment ("The Plough Jockeys"), and the RCR. A longtime Permanent Force regiment with an impeccable reputation for high professional standards, correctness, and reliability, The RCR came to be known as the "Pukkas." Pukka was an Anglo-Indian term current in the British Army that meant genuine, permanent, or solidly built.[25]
Shino Boys: a First World War nickname given to The RCR by soldiers of other units, noting the regiment's high standards of dress and deportment [26]
Run Chicken Run[36]: A widely repeated but highly apocryphal story has the nickname resulting from a romantic liaison between a member of the regiment and a chicken. In reality, it probably stems from the fact that the chicken is jokingly referred to by envious others as "the regimental bird." Which explanation is offered usually depends on whether or not the person asked is a member of the regiment. Chickens feature greatly in derogatory nicknames assigned to The RCR, such as Rubber Chicken Regiment, RCR Soup on Dining Hall menus, etc.
Coop: Used by military members to refer to the unit's battalions, i.e. 1 coop, 2 coop, 3 coop.
The Blue Puttees: name actually limited to the first 500 volunteers of the Newfoundland Regiment in 1914, as there was only blue broadcloth available to make puttees
The Fugees: used to illustrate the high number of members of different ethnicities. Two subcategories are eastern European (Winter battalion) and African-Canadian(Summer Battalion)
Little Black Devils: Infantry of the line usually wore scarlet tunics, while rifle units wore dark green—almost black—tunics. After the Battle of Fish Creek during the Northwest Rebellion of 1885, a captured Métis asked, "The red coats we know, but who are those little black devils?"—hence also the Latinmotto: “Hosti Acie Nominati”, “named by the enemy in battle”
Little ###### Boys: Another name after the before mentioned battle.
The Regiment: the precise origin is unknown, but may come from the fact that the British 22nd Special Air Service Regt is also called familiarly "The Regiment", although the Airborne was never affiliated with the SAS, but rather, The Parachute Regiment. However, that use of "The Regiment" to refer to one's own regiment amongst members is not unique, it was presumed by members of the CAR that all others would 'know' which regiment they meant.
the 75th Mississauga Battalion CEF (WWI) (perpetuated by the Toronto Scottish Regiment (Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's Own), who still wear the 75th's flash on their collar dog and dress belt buckles
Not to mention, while they didn't fare very well in the WW's (and like you mentioned, that was about circumstance, not because they weren't tough or brave) they did have one of the larger empires in the world history and some big years of conquest.
Yeah, it's just not a fair stereotype. It's all about the US chest thumping and the 'we saved your asses attitude many of them have about WW2,' which always made me a bit angry because countries like Canada and Australia who were much smaller were in the wars from the starts and made much larger contributions per capita, and countries like France and Poland really saw the worst of it and needed help much sooner.
Course, Americans know sheet about history and geography for the large part.
Canada along with Australia and the kiwis were in the war from the beginning because they were under the crown.
The Americans tried to stay out of the war until they possibly couldn't. The Second World War for the yanks was bad, but they were never pushed off continental Europe either.....
Wwi was Wierd and if it wasn't for the Zimmerman telegram I don't know if the Americans would have ever joined the war.
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In WW2 I don't blame the average French Soldier for the loss, they fought as bravely as they could.
They had ineffectual leadership that was stuck fighting the last war that didn't see that the world had entered the world of mobility warfare even though the German's had demonstrated it prior to moving around the French static defenses.
the French have been more failed by poor leadership then anything else.
Not to mention that they were set up completely on a defensive platform and were outflanked on the mag line
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Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
Not to mention that they were set up completely on a defensive platform and were outflanked on the mag line
they like a lot of people still expected WW2 to be dominated by static trench warfare. They didn't see anyone mastering the combined arms stuff quite as quickly as Germany.
We are talking about 100's of years of warfare tactics here, just like navies of the world didn't foresee the impact of naval aviation and were content to continue to roll out massive battlewagons.
When you make a assumption in how you think the enemy is going to fight a war, and your wrong you rarely recover.
The German's showed all kinds of signs of going to a rapid mobile armored based warfare heavily supported by Aircraft and rolling artillary.
The French still expected the German's to bravely dash into the mag line a top of their horses and boots dying bravely for Germany and all that.
"Don't worry" was the cry "The forest will stop them, excelsior"
Canada along with Australia and the kiwis were in the war from the beginning because they were under the crown.
The Americans tried to stay out of the war until they possibly couldn't. The Second World War for the yanks was bad, but they were never pushed off continental Europe either.....
Wwi was Wierd and if it wasn't for the Zimmerman telegram I don't know if the Americans would have ever joined the war.
Well yeah, I understand that, but it doesn't change the facts that the majority of the allies fought bravely for many years before the US decided to get their feet wet.
In fact, Canada lost 5% of it's total population to WW1! 10% of it's male population. Can you imagine that! If I recall, it was the biggest per capita loss of either war, besides Australia's WW1 loss.
Historically Canada got a lot of the toughest assignments too, part because they were the poor cousins in the world order, and partly because they were eager to prove themselves and show the world they were a 'nation'. Some of the battles they won in WW1, including Vimy, gave them much respect even among the Germans and Hitler himself in WW2. Ran into some stories of that when researching the Vimy Ridge Memorial.
It's not like the world doesn't know the US won (or at least sped up the victory immensely, as Germany made a really big mistake stretching into Russia when they did) WW2 in Europe for it's allies. It's not like the world isn't thankful for that.
It's just very maddening and sad to hear people, who typically know nothing about the history of the wars other than nazi's and the bombs, (not saying all American's know nothing, just saying the ones who often brag the most, often know the least) continually brag about saving the world from evil when other countries also made huge contributions, and the Americans watched a lot of their allies fight for years before they even got involved. Not to mention the real issues of profiting while others were fighting the good fight. And that's generally where a lot of those comments about the French come from. Or equally ignorant comments about the Canadian military.
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