Toronto Raptors 2013/14 Season

[Hockey_Ninja]

.500. Unbelievable. I thought we'd be tanking our asses off for Wiggins.

[darklord700]

The Raptors are world beaters now, first OKC and now the Pacers.

[Acey]

The Toronto "We Don't Want No Wiggins" Raptors.

[Da_Chief]

9-3 since the Gay trade.

3 losses? 2 to the Spurs (both double digits) and buzzer beater by Knight for Bobcats.

Wins coming against Pacers, Thunder, Bulls x 2 so some good to decent teams in there.

DeRozen, Lowry, Jonas really stepping up.

Might as well go for it now, hope Pacers and Heat play each other somewhere in the playoffs and you only have to face one of them and go balls out.

Definitely the 3rd best team in the East right now.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The Kings must be really looking forward to when they trade Rudy Gay so they too can instantly get better.

[moon]

Hopefully Ujiri isn't fooled by this and still moves out the deadweight.

This is still a horrible team and as tough as it is to see them tanking enough to get a top pick they still need to get rid of as many pieces as possible and try to get something for the future.

This team is lightyears away from contending and even in the pathetic East are at best the 6th best team and likely 12th at best if in the West.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

Hopefully Ujiri isn't fooled by this and still moves out the deadweight.

This is still a horrible team and as tough as it is to see them tanking enough to get a top pick they still need to get rid of as many pieces as possible and try to get something for the future.

This team is lightyears away from contending and even in the pathetic East are at best the 6th best team and likely 12th at best if in the West.

Go ahead please list the 5 teams that are better then them in the east. Did you actually watch the game tonight or you up to your usual trolling for no reason?

Horrible teams don't knock off Thunder and Pacers within a week. Are they better then those teams? not even close but are they horrible? not even close.

Ujiri will still move deadweight. Not every team is going to get Wiggins and Parker. The teams tat get them will still need a lot more help.

It's pretty simple, Ujiri is basically creating Nuggets version 2, no stars just bunch of good all-around ball players.

But do list the 5 teams that are better then the Raptors in the East. This should be fun.

[Zach]

Raptors should be good enough to finish top 4 in the East.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Go ahead please list the 5 teams that are better then them in the east. Did you actually watch the game tonight or you up to your usual trolling for no reason?

Horrible teams don't knock off Thunder and Pacers within a week. Are they better then those teams? not even close but are they horrible? not even close.

Ujiri will still move deadweight. Not every team is going to get Wiggins and Parker. The teams tat get them will still need a lot more help.

It's pretty simple, Ujiri is basically creating Nuggets version 2, no stars just bunch of good all-around ball players.

But do list the 5 teams that are better then the Raptors in the East. This should be fun.

Heat
Pacers
Hawks (although with Horford out for season we'll have to see)
Wizards
Celtics with Rondo back

I think Cleveland makes a move to significantly improve and they likely leapfrog Raptors as well.

Also even if they are top 4 in the East that isn't anything to be happy with because it is a long, long way from contending.

Hopefully Ujiri is not building a Nuggets like team as that team did absolutely nothing come play-off time and wasn't close to a title.

[Da_Chief]

Hawks now without their top player and you have to see? what do you have to see? they're not better.

Wizards go as Wall goes. Raptors the way they are playing should nto have trouble with them at all.

Celtics are your full tank team, not to mention Rondo coming back from long injury and his performance will be a question mark.

Cleveland hasn't made a move so they're not better yet.

So the teams you mentioned; one losing their best player, other getting their best player back from a long term injury and another might make a move that "likely" leapfrogs them in your opinion.

Don't think so their bud, Raptors are the 3rd best especially the was Jonas is developing and DeRozen is taking on the leadership role.

[moon]

Yes I have to see about the Hawks why would I just write them off? It isn't like they have to play that well to be ahead of the .500 Raptors.

Wizards go as well as Wall? Considering he is a lot better than anyone the Raptors have that isn't a bad thing.

The Celtics are tanking so hard they are only 2 games back of the Raptors and were right there before the Raps went on this little run.

The Cavs are the 6th team so them leap frogging the Raptors actually puts an extra team in, may or may not happen but another team with more talent than the Raps with a good chance of being better than them at the end of the year.

The Raps are .500 right now. They are not some great team so it doesn't take much to pass them especially with the lack of talent they have.

I guess we will see what happens but the fact you even talk about being the 3rd best team in the East like it is something to be proud makes me wonder what you want for this team long term. Because 3rd in the East and no major, major upgrades in talent means no championship at all for this team for a number of years.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

Yes I have to see about the Hawks why would I just write them off? It isn't like they have to play that well to be ahead of the .500 Raptors.

Wizards go as well as Wall? Considering he is a lot better than anyone the Raptors have that isn't a bad thing.

The Celtics are tanking so hard they are only 2 games back of the Raptors and were right there before the Raps went on this little run.

The Cavs are the 6th team so them leap frogging the Raptors actually puts an extra team in, may or may not happen but another team with more talent than the Raps with a good chance of being better than them at the end of the year.

The Raps are .500 right now. They are not some great team so it doesn't take much to pass them especially with the lack of talent they have.

I guess we will see what happens but the fact you even talk about being the 3rd best team in the East like it is something to be proud makes me wonder what you want for this team long term. Because 3rd in the East and no major, major upgrades in talent means no championship at all for this team for a number of years.

Thats ny opinion, those teams are not better nor will they be if the progression that is on display continues.

Again, its not like every team is going to get Parker or Wiggins and no ones going to trade you a superstar. So I don't know where you expect this superstar to fall from in their lap?

I said 3rd best team with Ujiri at the helm, not everything on that roster is useful, they can get better, he will make more moves.

They've found some chemistry, they're moving the ball, they're crashing the boards, playing D, running the ball.

You didn't answer the question if you actually watched the game tonight or not?

Also, since you have the answers, how do you purpose they become a contender? and overtake a team like the Heat?

[moon]

I did not watch the Pacers game tonight.

The only way to become a contender in the NBA is to get elite talent. The best way to get that is picking high. FA likely isn't a good route for Toronto because it isn't an appealing place to go. It isn't having a superstar falling in their lap it is getting him by drafting him with a top pick.

I don't think they can tank this year and am not mad that they won't I said I don't want Ujiri to think that a core of Lowry, DeRozan, Valcunias is good enough going forward. That is a very bad core that gets you nowhere close to a championship and realistically outside of JV this team isn't winning anything with DD and Lowry as 2 of its best players.

Best way for them to overcome the Heat is to hope LeBron leaves and Wade deteriorates because it will take TO 2-3 years at least to get to that level if they are lucky.

[Da_Chief]

Well you should've watched the game tonight so you can appreciate what the players are playing like. Don't just go off of past years play.

Derozen has improved a ton since he came into the league, he should be an all-star this year but likely will get snubbed. Lowry is playing his heart out, taking charges and dishing the ball. Jonas is finally involved in the offence and he's taking it well.

The Raptors are not winning a championship anytime soon. We all know that. The only way championship teams are built in the NBA is via super-team like the Lakers, Heat etc.

You get a generational talent and couple other guys come play with him, simple as that. You're not gonna beat those team.

If they had another forward who could create his own shot pushing Demar to 2nd option and Jonas to 3rd, then thats a good team. You might not think so but it is a fun team to watch.

[moon]

I have watched other games this year so basing it off that.

In the games I have watched Derozan is still a poor shooting, horrible defender. He is better than previous years but far from an all-star in my view.

Hopefully Lowry can play more like tonight and boost his trade value.

[Zach]

DeRozan has improved a lot after Gay's departure. I agree it doesn't matter where the Raptors finish.....the Heat and Pacers would cruise by them in a series.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Here's the thing you're forgetting moon. Even if the Raptors now decide to go all-in on a tank (and again good luck selling that to the fanbase now that the team is showing potential), there are still at least 6 teams who will finish worse than them: Utah, Sacramento, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Orlando and Cleveland. Then you have another 4-5 teams who have a good chance finish ahead of the Raptors: Chicago, Boston, the Lakers, the Nets and the Knicks.

So do you really see a way for the Raptors to get "in front" of all those teams? I mean short of trading everyone on the roster except Jonas, trading them all for picks, and then having D-Leaguers take their place, the Raptors theoritically have a harder path getting to the top of the lottery than they do the NBA Finals. There's only 2 teams who can definitively stop them from the NBA Finals. There's at least 5 teams who will stop them from getting to the top of the lottery.

So then, its do you wanna finish in the 8-13 range of the lottery? Is purging your entire roster worth it? I really don't think so. The Raptors can always do what Houston did and wait for its opportunity to trade for one (or two) high end players. But tanking at this point seems off the table in my opinion. They can't get into a position to get an elite player. Plus, and lest we forget, no draft pick is guaranteed to be anything. If the Raptors tank, trade away the entire roster, get Jabari or Wiggins and they bust or are only good and not elite, then they're in a worse spot than they are now.

[moon]

I think tanking is off the table for this year. Too many teams that are way "ahead" of the Raptors in that area.

But I still think this shouldn't change the long term plan and that pieces like Lowry, Johnson and DD should be moved out if there is anyone stupid enough to take them.

The team is going to make the play-offs by default it seems but isn't close to contending so any move made should be with the long term future in mind because even with the play-offs this year is basically a write off.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I agree they still need to make some moves, but now they can be more patient and wait for good deals rather than trade guys quickly for picks. The only guy who should definitively be dealt this year is Lowry because he's expiring.

[darklord700]

Even if TO finishes with the worse record, there's only like a 25% chance of them getting the 1st pick which is the beauty of the NBA lottery system. If this was the stock market, TO should buy when everyone was selling and vice versa.