Burke Philosophy VS Feaster Philosophy

[TurnedTheCorner]

Jay philosophy: Hair bad



Brian philosophy: Hair good

[combustiblefuel]

Only time will tell if this move is pleasant or not. The most positive note is we just went from a Stanley cup winning GM to An Intern GM who won the Stanley Cup 2 seasons later.

[Ashasx]

...what was wrong with Jay's hair? Sure he didn't have the locks of Burke, but it's not like he's Rob Kerr...

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by moon

He signed Hudler and Wideman who are not intelligent players. Traded for Butler who is neither intelligent or skilled. Galliardi isn't intelligent,

Moon -- Lives in a glass house. Throws stones.

Hahahaha especially with the Galliari/Hudler aspect. And for Wideman his downside is skills not decisions. I'd agree Butler appears unintelligent with occasional flashes of skill/insight.

Of all the prolific posters I read on CP I find yours the most difficult to take seriously. I'm not sure where you get off making blanket and indefensible comments like this, but its more of the same.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

I have a feeling a Brian Burke managed team never would have drafted Jankowski and he would have been a forgotten memory or a player that we looked at later as (oh look who we could have picked).

The conversation between Burke and the scout would have looked like this:

Scout: Brian you gotta check this out, theres a kid playing hockey for a high school who has tons of talent that you gotta check out for the draft this year.

Brian Burke: Kid playing high school hockey? While raising eyebrow

Scout: Yes Brian and we can get him in the first round

Brian Burke: Kid playing high school hockey....First Round (As he roles his eyes).

Scout: Yes Brian

Brian Burke: Stop drinking the kool aid or i'll fire you. End of conversation.

Agree that Burke was probably referencing the Jankowski pick when he said that the team couldn't afford to screw up drafting. But consider that Burke would have probably picked Oleksiak (big physical d) over Baertschi in 2011. Too much of a philosophical gap for the two to work together.

Probably good too that we took the players from Pitt in the Iggy deal as hanowski has size whereas koko is too small in Burkes eyes.

[kremb]

I wonder if Feaster had found a Pest. I wish Aliu had got his S##T together.

I imagine thats what BB is talking about with his Tc. He thinks its a big secret.

I thought Hartley had enough Tc in his lineup with BMG as the nuclear deterrent.

Although maybe Weisbrods moneypuck can't account for Tc levels.

I guess this means we have a good team if BB wants to put his name on it, or he knew he was going to be able to spend $71M to find the right goon. Either way its a pretty exciting time to be a Flames fan, especially with the situation in EDM. It'd be nice to be a thorn to those guys as they further develop.




off topic: check out the current 1st round matchups

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/matchups

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

moon was wrong about those guys (Russell, Hudler) agreed.. but 200 ft, intelligent players then look at Jones, Butler, etc?

Meh I'm not really convinced the Flames are a team of intelligent 200 ft players at all... to me, they look a little small then even a little 5'9 defenseman beats up our first liner and has him skating back to the bench all alone trying to collect his teeth on the way back. It didn't even make me mad, it just made me feel pity for the Flames.... easy to beat up on the score board, easy to beat up on the ice.

They absolutely are not a team of 200 ft intelligent players. They're a bunch of marginally talented NHL-level bodies who try really hard, but ultimately have too many things stacked against them to achieve any consistent success.

Whether it's the lack of size on the wings, the fact that Matt Stajan will have been the best centre on this team for two full calendar years by the end of the season, or a paper-thin defence that can't handle the physical toll of an 82 game season, Feaster either wasn't able to acquire players to fit his philosophy or wasn't sure about what his philosophy was supposed to be.

The three Flame teams he's had have all been different enough from each other for his moves to be labelled 'change for change's sake'. I mentioned this in another thread, but Feaster has brought in some good players. Wideman is a good player. Hudler is a good player. Galiardi is a useful player. Russell is having a great year. And in a vacuum, all of these are decent moves. But very little thought has been given to how these players fit as part of a team, what their role might be, and what other players might compliment their style.

Let's look at the back end as an example. You have Brodie, Wideman, Giordano and Russell who all bring various levels of the same thing. Gio is your captain, Brodie is the guy you hope becomes Dan Boyle; they aren't going anywhere. Wideman and Russell aren't bad players, but they're not what the team needs at ALL. If anything at least one or both of them should be dealt to address the lack of physical defensive defensemen on the roster. A la Russell being dealt to St Louis for Nikitin. Because at the moment, there's one stay-home physical D who's not a complete liability whenever he's on the ice. And just in case anyone's forgotten, this has been the case since the Regehr trade. That's piss poor team construction, and coupled with Feaster's horrific trade record and apparent inability to comprehend the rules of the CBA, it's easy to see that Burke has made the right decision.

I like Jay as a person. He seems like a good man. He shouldn't be the GM of an NHL team.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Feaster's philosophy was whatever Ken King and Murray Edwards determined it was and I'm saying that in defense of Feaster in that he probably never really got a chance to run things exactly the way he would have liked. I believe that is no longer the case and things will be run Burke's way. I'll take Burke's philosophy over Edwards and King's.

I still see it the other way. The only way Feaster got that job full time, and then kept it, was likely because he likely promised/actively encouraged and sought out those opinions from the non-hockey op guys above him....not only that, followed through on them.

Because he gave them that leeway, those guys took advantage of that (when yes, they should've stepped back not having the hockey ops ability) to help Feaster out and probably eventually enjoyed having that day to day input and control the GM afforded them, labelling it a "group" effort.

After the ROR thing, I think Edwards realized that Feaster was starting to ruin the reputation of the Flames and really didn't have the ability to make the tough decision or half the contacts as others seemed to. Couldnt fire him at the time; they needed more time than what they had to figure out what to do with hockey ops and toying with the idea of trading Iginla (though that wasn't until around January this year) and knew he probably had to step back from suggesting things to the hockey guys to make that happen...and looked then for a trusted person to slide in above Feaster.

But I don't have any sympathy for Feaster in having his hands tied. Any sort of pressure he felt to make moves from the guys above him were a direct result from him obtaining that job largely by promising and granting those guys ability to do that from the start.

[Scoreface]

Originally Posted by kremb

I wonder if Feaster had found a Pest. I wish Aliu had got his S##T together.

I imagine thats what BB is talking about with his Tc. He thinks its a big secret.

I thought Hartley had enough Tc in his lineup with BMG as the nuclear deterrent.

Although maybe Weisbrods moneypuck can't account for Tc levels.

I guess this means we have a good team if BB wants to put his name on it, or he knew he was going to be able to spend $71M to find the right goon. Either way its a pretty exciting time to be a Flames fan, especially with the situation in EDM. It'd be nice to be a thorn to those guys as they further develop.




off topic: check out the current 1st round matchups

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/matchups

I think Burke wants Tc (truculence, as you seem to put it) mostly through the bottom 6 and not just callups/tweeners for the big club. Like you said and if I think I know what you mean, it's guys that play that role and also sprinkled in the top 6. The ones at the top are the hardest to get though, everyone knows that. If not drafted, then a severely heavy price is paid ala David Clarkson.

It's not a big secret, since in BB's estimation, teams are modelling themselves after his Cup win in Anaheim. Grats is ok in that role on the fourth line, but he has few willing combatants to fight, yet he still takes the body nicely in the role he is given.

As for Weisbrod, he is an NCAA guy and nothing else. Apparently, he likes high school guys too. Nobody really knows for sure what he did leading up to his firing.

[moon]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

Was it Stajan or Backlund?

Stajan obviously.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Your assessments of Russell and Hudler are right out to lunch. They're probably the two biggest contributors to whatever success the team has had this year. Lmao at Hudler not being intelligent.

We all know of your displeasure of Wideman so its not surprising you went there...again.

Watch the drop passes Hudler makes to the other team, or his defensive "play." He may be great at scoring for a bad team and offensively may be intelligent but overall he is far from a 200 ft player and not an overall smart hockey player.

Russell again offensively seems to be decent, moving the puck as well, but his defensive decision making leaves a lot to be desired and that is with improvement in that area this year compared to others.

Russell has been a good addition but we weren't talking about that it was the type of players that Feaster supposedly brings in and Russell didn't fit the description in the OP.

And not sure how anyone can watch Wideman and say he is a 200 ft player, he is a disaster in his own end. Whether I hate him or not his bad defensive play is not something that I am the only raising an issue on.

[Scoreface]

They both were terrible, but yes, by default I guess. Woeful. (In response to Moon)

[CSharp]

I think the experiments with the so-called best players not playing in the NHL and the smallish players Feaster has taken for the Flames has costed him the job. If you look at the Pacific division or even the Western Conference, the average size of the Flames is probably as small or smaller than the Oilers. The top 4 teams in the division and the top 8 teams in the conference overshadow the Flames in terms of size up front and on defence. On most nights, a lot of teams continually wear down the smaller Flames players and therefore, they're good enough to lose a majority of their games by one or two goals. Once in a while, they'll win by one goal, mostly in OT, but still giving points away. We've seen too much of that crap from the mid 90's through to 2003. Hopefully, Burke and his management will start bring in bigger, faster, and more skilled players. It'll definitely take some time, but he'll need to bring in his own people to do the job. Get some better scouting staff who knows the talents and stop wasting time building some minor league team.

It wasn't all Feaster's fault, but the mess that was created by Darryl Sutter snowballed starting with the Regehr trade. The team just kept getting smaller and smaller. You also don't waste your pick in a deep draft to get two frickin left wingers, especially a 5'11" winger that you get from trading a franchise player. When the history of the team needs center depth, stock up on the best, biggest, fastest centers you can get. Monahan was a no brainer, but Feaster and his scouting staff totally failed two years in a row with their selections.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by moon

Watch the drop passes Hudler makes to the other team, or his defensive "play." He may be great at scoring for a bad team and offensively may be intelligent but overall he is far from a 200 ft player and not an overall smart hockey player.

Russell again offensively seems to be decent, moving the puck as well, but his defensive decision making leaves a lot to be desired and that is with improvement in that area this year compared to others.

Russell has been a good addition but we weren't talking about that it was the type of players that Feaster supposedly brings in and Russell didn't fit the description in the OP.

And not sure how anyone can watch Wideman and say he is a 200 ft player, he is a disaster in his own end. Whether I hate him or not his bad defensive play is not something that I am the only raising an issue on.

Hudler is an exceptionally smart hockey player offensively.

Russel is a really good hockey player offensively and defensively, especially when you consider his cap hit is 1.7.

I can say that very easily....Dennis Wideman plays well in all 200 feet of the rink and plays well in his own end. Saying you hate someone that youve never met just because you dont like the way they play hockey is well....not a good thing to say.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Moon -- Lives in a glass house. Throws stones.

Not sure what this means. You think I am not an intelligent hockey player or a 200 ft player?

Hahahaha especially with the Galliari/Hudler aspect. And for Wideman his downside is skills not decisions. I'd agree Butler appears unintelligent with occasional flashes of skill/insight.

Have you seen the penalties that Galliardi has taken this year? The comments from coaches about him? He strikes you as an intelligent player? I would say average at best and doubt you find many scouting reports/scouts that list hickey IQ as a big asset for him.

Wideman makes a ton of bonehead decisions that have nothing to do with skill. And what skill is it that he is lacking that forces him to make so many mistakes? He skates just fine and can pass the puck fine. What skill has him leaving guys open? What skill has him using that stupid one knee slide defense? What skill has him pinch at awful times?

Of all the prolific posters I read on CP I find yours the most difficult to take seriously. I'm not sure where you get off making blanket and indefensible comments like this, but its more of the same.

Not sure what you think this adds to the thread or topic but I have defended the statements in here with examples other than personal attacks like you have resorted to.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by moon

Stajan obviously.

So Backlund isn't a real center then - the pinocchio of the roster.

Maybe you should have specified top 6.
Then the answer would be 0 last year, and 0 this year.
Monahan most likely will be, but you can't dump a 1-2C role on a rookie straight out of junior for 82 games.

[moon]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

So Backlund isn't a real center then - the pinocchio of the roster.

Maybe you should have specified top 6.
Then the answer would be 0 last year, and 0 this year.
Monahan most likely will be, but you can't dump a 1-2C role on a rookie straight out of junior for 82 games.

Borderline NHL center at best, especially last year.

Now he may be showing he can be a bottom 6 guy.

[Scoreface]

Hopefully, Burke and his management will start bring in bigger, faster, and more skilled players.(Quote from CSharp)

Have to draft them or trade for them. The prospect pool still isn't good enough to trade for them, unless Feaster's sacred Sven was on the block and a first rounder maybe.

Monahan was a no brainer, but Feaster and his scouting staff totally failed two years in a row with their selections.(This sentence,
quote again)

As much of a reach as Jankowski was (Seiloff perhaps too, but taken to move down), it's too early to write those guys off. Risky? Yes. Probably should have played it safer considering the cupboards were pretty much bare. Total failure? Too early to say that. Same with Sven. He needs to build his confidence and assertiveness, which are hand in hand.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

Not sure what this means. You think I am not an intelligent hockey player or a 200 ft player?


Wideman makes a ton of bonehead decisions that have nothing to do with skill. And what skill is it that he is lacking that forces him to make so many mistakes? He skates just fine and can pass the puck fine. What skill has him leaving guys open? What skill has him using that stupid one knee slide defense? What skill has him pinch at awful times?

You're probably a defensive liability and there's for sure questions about your footspeed.

You're right about Wideman in this regard. He has all the tools, but he doesn't think the game well enough to be a true impact player. He needs his partner to help him out, he needs sheltered assignments, and he needs to not play 30 minutes a night. He's been improperly used in Calgary because the GM that signed him didn't know how to construct a team.

If we had Wideman playing #1 minutes on the PP and #5 minutes at even strength and PK, it wouldn't be ideal given his salary, but with the cap set to soar, I'm not concerned about the money. I am concerned with players being put in the right roles and given a fighting chance to succeed. Putting Dennis Wideman out on the ice for 30 minutes a night is not putting him in a position to succeed.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

Hudler is an exceptionally smart hockey player offensively.

Russel is a really good hockey player offensively and defensively, especially when you consider his cap hit is 1.7.

Agreed that Hudler is smart offensively but I don't think the OP said that Feaster looks for guys who are only offensive intelligent.

Russell not a really good defensive player, he is fine/adequate there so far this year and good wasn't the criteria used in the OP.

I can say that very easily....Dennis Wideman plays well in all 200 feet of the rink and plays well in his own end. Saying you hate someone that youve never met just because you dont like the way they play hockey is well....not a good thing to say.

There is no way that he plays well in his own end but no point arguing back and forth if you actually think he plays well there as we will not agree, he is a disaster defensively.

I can say I hate a player based on never meeting them because I am talking about them as a player not personally. I don't know or care about Wideman personally let alone hate him.