2013 Calgary Municipal Election Thread

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I keep telling Chima and Naheed I'm voting for Sandra Hunter - aka "Mayor-juana". She also has a great plan to stop wasteful spending at "Silly Hall". They respect my decision.

Geebuz Bunk, vote for a real candidate - even if he's not running! (Can I believe it? No, I can't!)

[Bunk]

Oh Oscar. He's been so silent this election. I am disappoint.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by GGG

This whole developer spat has really soured me on Nenshi. Last election his slogan was politics in full sentences. He wanted meaningful debate. This year he us basically running a negative campaign against the development industry. Instead of positively selling the idea of paying for the externalities of your decisions its turned into an urban suburban war.

It really disappoints me that someone who has appeared above political bickering and ideolgy has approached this issue this way.

I guess this depends on one's perspective, but I see it as Nenshi being on the defensive against Cal Wenzel et al. who made no bones about the fact that they were going to actively support candidates for council who would oppose the mayor and vote "their way". Were it not for that leaked video, I suspect the tone of this campaign would have been quite different.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

This whole developer spat has really soured me on Nenshi. Last election his slogan was politics in full sentences. He wanted meaningful debate. This year he us basically running a negative campaign against the development industry. Instead of positively selling the idea of paying for the externalities of your decisions its turned into an urban suburban war.

It really disappoints me that someone who has appeared above political bickering and ideolgy has approached this issue this way.

Nenshi needs a boogey man. He's gotten hammered on spending and on the tax grab right or wrong.

I think part of his popularity is because nobody decent has made the time to run against an incumbent mayor.

He's come across to me as arrogant and angry and a slight bit greasy.

He doesn't want to debate, he wants to rant. He doesn't want dissenting views on council, he wants his own people.

I don't have any doubt that he's going to be the mayor. The best thing that can come out of this election is a city council with less Nenshi sycophants on it, and more a proper exercise in debate, and less people that are willing to accept all of these off camera sessions.

I don't think our mayor wants that or would handle it all that well. But it would be the best thing that could happen.

I voted for Nenshi in the last election, I like what he had to say in the last election. I'm really soured on him this time, and I doubt I'll vote for him, unfortunately there aren't any mayor candidates that I like or resonate with me, so if I can leave the mayors ballot empty I'll do that. If not, I'll probably just pick the likely second place finisher based on any final polls so Nenshi will get a message.

I'm not going to sit here and rant and rave about Nenshi

I think that at the heart he wants the best thing for Calgary, he just didn't to me live up to the image that he portrayed in the last election.

Hopefully he leaves this election a bit chastised and a little more humble.

[Flash Walken]

That's a pretty good rant and rave about nenshi for not being a rant and rave about nenshi.

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah, but to you, everything I do is a rant and rave.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Slava

I do think its interesting that a number of Nenshi supporters (not on this site entirely, but on twitter as well) seem upset with the "slate" implications here, but have no issue with unions donating thousands of dollars to campaigns and supporting candidates. I don't see a difference at all, but I suspect some of that difference is ideology.

The relationship between employee-employer is fundamentally different than the relationship between member-union. Although a union does have some influence over a member's life, it has nowhere near the influence that an employer has over the life of an employee.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Nenshi needs a boogey man. He's gotten hammered on spending and on the tax grab right or wrong..

He has? Where? In the polls? I haven't seen those polls.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think part of his popularity is because nobody decent has made the time to run against an incumbent mayor.

Did that explain his popularity on election night three years ago?

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He's come across to me as arrogant and angry and a slight bit greasy.

Your perception is a marked departure from mine.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He doesn't want to debate, he wants to rant. He doesn't want dissenting views on council, he wants his own people..

Wait, don't you support the federal Conservatives?

Hypocrisy aside, is there a politician out there who doesn't want to improve their political position by having more allies? (This would seem to be even more important for the mayor of a Canadian city, who has no real authority or power, and depends entirely on the votes of council to accomplish the goals set out in his or her election platform.)

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Makarov

The relationship between employee-employer is fundamentally different than the relationship between member-union. Although a union does have some influence over a member's life, it has nowhere near the influence that an employer has over the life of an employee.

Politically speaking though this is the same. In fact, the union gets contributions from members and then openly donates to preferred candidates. That is far more involvement than an independent business owner donating some cash and suggesting his employees vote for someone; its not their money!

I would totally agree if the message was "do it or else", but its not. Its "you should vote this way because we think its better for business", which is the same message that Bunk gets (maybe less/more directly due to that specific position). Why shouldn't an employer take that action?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I guess this depends on one's perspective, but I see it as Nenshi being on the defensive against Cal Wenzel et al. who made no bones about the fact that they were going to actively support candidates for council who would oppose the mayor and vote "their way". Were it not for that leaked video, I suspect the tone of this campaign would have been quite different.

But he has chosen to go negative rather than debate the issues. He has plenty of publicicty and mic time to explain why suburban development needs to pay for itself. Instead he responds with attacks.

He beat Ric and Barb because he spoke to people as people with brains. This election his message has almost been as bad as the Rick bell Its our money give it back. It creates division and divisive politics might win elections but it hurts governance and the average citizen.

He had a big enough lead that he did not need to get in the mud. He should be telling us his vision for calgary, not creating a boogeyman to scare votes for.

[Ozy_Flame]

I will agree, I think Nenshi is picking his battles and targeting on people beyond the election itself, but that's not to say its not important. I am personally glad that our mayor is finally stepping in to challenge our outward sprawl, and perhaps we can come to some sort of acceptable method to pay for it, or at least the distribution of who pays what. Suburban sprawl is very high on my priority items and I want to see it stopped. We can do a much better job of making use of the existing land we have. As a voter, I am happy to see him fight this battle. It has gone unchecked for too long IMO.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't have any doubt that he's going to be the mayor. The best thing that can come out of this election is a city council with less Nenshi sycophants on it, and more a proper exercise in debate, and less people that are willing to accept all of these off camera sessions.

I don't think our mayor wants that or would handle it all that well. But it would be the best thing that could happen.

That's to suggest there are sycophants on Council now. There really are not any. The Manning Centre voting analysis clearly demonstrated this fact:



The reason why the Mayor is fighting hard against a group wanting to control Council through a bloc that will vote "their way" and against the Mayor's agenda is that he's been successful in fostering a culture on Council that is independent-minded and votes issue to issue. It's a great thing that people as diametrically opposed as Farrell and Keating co-sponsor Motions on issues of common concern. It would be a damn shame to lose that very healthy dynamic from our decision-makers. Calling it out in the context of an election will make it politically more difficult to try and form a bloc structure no matter who's on Council.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

But he has chosen to go negative rather than debate the issues. He has plenty of publicicty and mic time to explain why suburban development needs to pay for itself. Instead he responds with attacks.

He beat Ric and Barb because he spoke to people as people with brains. This election his message has almost been as bad as the Rick bell Its our money give it back. It creates division and divisive politics might win elections but it hurts governance and the average citizen.

He had a big enough lead that he did not need to get in the mud. He should be telling us his vision for calgary, not creating a boogeyman to scare votes for.

http://www.nenshi.ca/policy

http://www.nenshi.ca/endthesubsidy

None of this strikes me as "creating a boogeyman" or as Rick-Bell-esque in any way whatsoever. I honestly don't understand where this perception is coming from.

[Pagal4321]

What I found to be a good editorial piece from the builder side.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...490/story.html

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GGG

But he has chosen to go negative rather than debate the issues. He has plenty of publicicty and mic time to explain why suburban development needs to pay for itself. Instead he responds with attacks.

He beat Ric and Barb because he spoke to people as people with brains. This election his message has almost been as bad as the Rick bell Its our money give it back. It creates division and divisive politics might win elections but it hurts governance and the average citizen.

He had a big enough lead that he did not need to get in the mud. He should be telling us his vision for calgary, not creating a boogeyman to scare votes for.

I'd suggest he's put out a lot of substantive material explaining a very complex issue (edit - beat by Makarov). I think it's more the likes of Rick Bell and Jon Lord that have characterized his positions as "attacks on suburbs" and the like. That's what they do.

http://www.nenshi.ca/endthesubsidy

He's used lots of mic time to explain the issue - not just during the election, but throughout the last 3 years.

The developer levy issue and Wenzel video issue are only somewhat related.

[calf]

I'm a little confused by the inner-city vs. suburb divide when it comes to the subsidy. I live in an established, but still quite suburban community. Removal of this subsidy only affects new builds (correct me if I'm wrong), so, why wouldn't I support someone that wants to shift some costs onto the consumer instead of the taxpayers?

Seems to me it's more of an established neighborhoods vs new builds divide on this issue, but people in the suburbs are getting defensive for some reason.

Granted, I get how the inner-city finds the market-value system unfair (I do too...why are my taxes for a house in Tuscany more than a house in Falconridge that uses the same amount of infrastructure), but that doesn't seem to be what the issue is (at this point).

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by calf

I'm a little confused by the inner-city vs. suburb divide when it comes to the subsidy. I live in an established, but still quite suburban community. Removal of this subsidy only affects new builds (correct me if I'm wrong), so, why wouldn't I support someone that wants to shift some costs onto the consumer instead of the taxpayers?

Granted, I get how the inner-city finds the market-value system unfair (I do too...why are my taxes for a house in Tuscany more than a house in Falconridge that uses the same amount of infrastructure), but that doesn't seem to be what the issue is (at this point).

You're exactly right. The Mayor has NEVER framed it as inner-city vs. suburbs. It's all existing (and future taxpayers/ratepayers) no matter where they live that end up picking up the tab of an inadequate developer levy (which pays for the initial outlay of capital) through their taxes and especially utility rates.

On market value assessment - it's supposed to be an approximation of the ability to pay. But if you're income is fixed (say you're a senior) and your property value skyrockets, you have to pay more even though your ability to pay if you want to stay in your home stays the same. This is why property tax is a terrible and regressive taxation system (you'll hear the Mayor say that a lot).

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

He has? Where? In the polls? I haven't seen those polls.

Seperate the polls from what you read and see and hear from people. Polls are about as relevant as the number of people polled. I think we've also seen that polls in the last few elections have significantly departed from actual results. Yes the sun is a rag, but reading editorials in the sun and herald and reader feedback, absolutely Nenshi is feeling some heat from voters on the property tax and provincial tax grab and too many closed door off camera meetings and a lot of other issues.

Originally Posted by Makarov

Did that explain his popularity on election night three years ago?

His message in the last election was far different. He came across as a fiscal conservative, he was going to do a better job with our money then the previous mayor. He was going to open things up in terms of transparency, he was going to gain control of the cities bureaucracy and cut waste. That message was relevant to city voters.

Originally Posted by Makarov

Your perception is a marked departure from mine.

Really what a surprise, based on our viewpoints on the board you and me couldn't even agree on the color of an apple.

Originally Posted by Makarov

Wait, don't you support the federal Conservatives?

Do you understand the difference between a federal party system and a municipal council system?

Right now if they were the same, I would be fine with Nenhsi in a minority government situation. You can argue that its one man one vote, but this on a federal level would be equivalent to Harper openly supporting like minded liberals and NDP'ers in an election that would automatically vote with the conservatives because they liked Harpers purple suit.

They aren't even close to equivalent, and Nenshi's whole use against them and vote for my slate of candidates for alderperson comes across to me as a bit greasy. I don't necessarily like either side of the debate, this election has been to say the least interesting.

Originally Posted by Makarov

Hypocrisy aside, is there a politician out there who doesn't want to improve their political position by having more allies? (This would seem to be even more important for the mayor of a Canadian city, who has no real authority or power, and depends entirely on the votes of council to accomplish the goals set out in his or her election platform.)

Fair enough, that's how the system works. Like I said, I hope that there is a new slate of Alder People that are willing to work for their constituents and not the mayor.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yes the sun is a rag, but reading editorials in the sun and herald and reader feedback, absolutely Nenshi is feeling some heat from voters on the property tax and provincial tax grab and too many closed door off camera meetings and a lot of other issues.

I don't think comment sections for any online news site should be taken as a reflection of the opinion of the overall community.

[Ozy_Flame]

The Sun comment section is . . . . the last place I would expect to represent most of Calgary's population. C'mon Cap, you know better than that.