Kesler doesn't wanna hear that the Nucks are declining

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Umm No. Vinny is exactly right. He was not talking about the last 2 years of the flames, he was talking about the flames when Keenan took over. When Keenan took over the flames had been doing great durring the regular season but kept getting booted in the first round. That's where the canucks are right now.

Going forward if Torts does not get them over the hump, they will decline to a flames team just trying to make the playoffs with the "anything can happen" mantra.

year before Keenan 8th in the West
1st year of Keenan 7th in West
2nd year of Keenan 5th in West

Originally Posted by the2bears

Yeah, most "elite" team to get swept in the first round.

Seriously, they've been a good team, but elite? No.

because I said specifically last years team was? and not 'over the last 5 years?

They have had 100 points every season (on pace for last year) since 2008/09
2 presidents trophies
1 SCF appearance

I mean what is there to argue? I think if you asked most people to name the elite teams in the league over the last 5 years period the Canucks are getting named

[CaptainCrunch]

Kesler certainly dove into that debate with a lot of enthusiasm

I always thought he was over rated. He generates a lot of his points against subpar teams.

Outside of I think one series he's been a meh performer in the playoffs.

The Canucks would be smart in looking at moving him for picks and prospects.

[macrov]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The hiring of Torts reminds me of the flames brining in Keenan. Bring in a hard ass coach with a short shelf life to get a team whose window is closing over the hump. It wont work. The Canucks look to have a similar problem as the flames. They have some nice young forwards now but their core is over 30 and they have no one in that 23-28 age group

I agree with most of this. Except that IMO it might work, as IMO it almost worked with Keenan. Remember, he had over half of his top 6 forwards injured, and half his top 4 defensemen. And even so, he took the hawks to 6 games. If the team was healthy that year, it might have been different.

[djsFlames]

Hah! Hahahaha..

13/14 Nucks = 09/10 Flames.

[Sylvanfan]

I don't want to hear that I'm getting fat, have less hair, have too much personal debt, Canada's economy is heading for a down turn, and that a housing bubble is going to blow up stressing my families already dubious financial situation even more....

If I completely ignore that stuff, chances are things will really be bad 3 years from now. Kesler can whine and cry about negativity all he likes, but him and the Canucks do need to realize that they better win now because as every passes the window is closing at a more rapid pace.

[Pontine]

I can't wait for the decline and hopefully It'll quiet the canuck fans for a couple years.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Kesler's response was perfect, exactly what he should have said. Be worried if I was a Nucks fan and he said anything else.

As for the rest of it, I actually think the Flames assembled their best team under Sutter in Keenan's final year. The team was ticking along great, Cammy and Iggy were playing great, they finally upgrade the centre position with Jokinen and were poised. Then they get hit with some pretty rough injuries. Sutter gambled and spent ownerships money right the cap, so the injuries hurt even more than they should and a team that was the best in the division that year, fell into a tough spot. Injuries then made it tough to get through the first round. Not making excuses, but in the NHL you need everything to fall into place luck wise as well to succeed, and in that year the Flames didnt.

After that, probably because they'd given Sutter so much leeway and money that I believe that ownership group started to lose faith in Sutter and stopped allowing him to do exactly what he wanted, and started to influence his decisions which IMO (again all opinion here) is where things started to go bad for Sutter. Forced to fire Keenan (apparently) when he didn't want to, what was the influence on the Neuf deal?, did they influence his thoughts in what to do with Iggy, and he was blocked in relieving his brother and got the axe himself. That's what I see happened with the Flames coupled with the obvious decline of our key players.

As for the Nucks, it won't be completely evident what happened to them until its done and we can apply hindsight. But there does appear to be a lot of similarities between the situations, other than the Nucks have had more success with their version of the team. I do think there is a good chance they are already on the decline, but if they aren't, this Torts experiment is for sure there last kick at the can because that core at most has 2 more years IMO to try and win, and not unlike the Flames, they aren't positioned with there prospects for a seamless passing of the torch.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Good for him! I HATE the Canucks but didnt Galiardi say something similar and got a bunch of praise for it.

Difference being that Galiardi answered the question with a lot more class.

[MissAvery16]

Kesler won't even be playing for half the season.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Two years ago they were an elite team, there is no way to argue that. I don't think that they are elite anymore, they are getting older, but to argue that the 2010-2012 Canucks were not an elite hockey team would just be incorrect. Winning two Presidents Trophies and a trip to the Stanley Cup Finals indicates that they were at one point in time an elite hockey club.

There's no correctness in arguing against they're having been elite or not. They did not win the Cup. I'll go as far as to say they were a "very good" team for a couple of years, but they didn't achieve the ultimate goal.

Without defining "elite" it's quite easy to argue this. It's just opinion, as you feel the President Trophies and the Finals appearance is enough to qualify. I don't.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I mean what is there to argue? I think if you asked most people to name the elite teams in the league over the last 5 years period the Canucks are getting named

Just our mutual definitions of "elite" when used with teams I guess. As I've mentioned already, they were certainly a "very good" team, I just reserve "elite" for that extra trophy (at least). I'm not even sure I'd put the cup-winning Flames in the elite category. Just couldn't put it together in the post-season after 1989.

[Dion]

“To be honest, I don’t listen to that s---,” Kesler told reporters.

“That’s what it is. It’s s---. We believe in ourselves in the dressing room. All those negative comments we’re not even going to ...

“To be honest, I shouldn’t have even answered that question. It’s s---.”

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Kesler certainly dove into that debate with a lot of enthusiasm

[transplant99]

nm

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by Pontine

I can't wait for the decline and hopefully It'll quiet the canuck fans for a couple years.

Good luck with that. I started posting here when the Canucks were 10th in the conference.

I have to say this, though. There are far less idiots here than in the HF Canucks forum.

[stemit14]

Can't wait to see the Canucks' fall from grace

[Mister Yamoto]

The Vancouver Canucks are the 2009 Flames. Their window of opportunity has closed but they do not realize it yet.

[Locke]

Yeah, denial's the way to go. That cant miss.

They're a talented team on the decline with issues that havent been addressed. They couldnt win it all at their peak and now think that some miracle is going to happen where they can win 'post-apex.'

When you're not good enough to win it all when you get there, you have to get better to have a shot at winning it all. I've never understood the mentality of 'we're a little bit worse, but we can still win the cup...."

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

except you can't really compare the two teams, one is coming to what may be the tail end of being an elite team over the past 5 years

the other was coming to the end of being a fringe playoff team

They weren't elite last year. They were a good not great team playing in the worst division in hockey. First found fodder to whatever team they faced. There are a lot of similarities wether Canucks fans want to believe it or not but I believe the Flames were a better team in 2007-2009 than the Canucks are today.

I actually think Fonzie is a good coach and predict there will times this season where he will have the Canucks looking like a contender but when the playoffs roll around the usual suspect will show up and get smoked like last season.

[jhunt223]

Originally Posted by the2bears

There's no correctness in arguing against they're having been elite or not. They did not win the Cup. I'll go as far as to say they were a "very good" team for a couple of years, but they didn't achieve the ultimate goal.

Without defining "elite" it's quite easy to argue this. It's just opinion, as you feel the President Trophies and the Finals appearance is enough to qualify. I don't.

Of course they were elite. Stop making flames fans look like idiots.