Shut Off Water Valves Condo Need Professional Help!

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Update:

Canceled my appointment with Need A Plumber Canada, made one with ClearView...they are $60 assessment but I have heard some stellar reviews about them...and that fee rolls into the repair itself so it is not extra.

Also God forbid that the repair costs $300 plus...there is a $60 coupon I can use from online.

Will let everyone know how it goes, thanks again CP for the help and suggestions.

[chemgear]

Good luck with it!

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Update:

ClearView is phenom.

Unfortunately our issue has not been resolved. Basically because we live in a condo unit, the shut off valves are not an exact science so to speak, meaning because the condo pumps out heavy pressure the shut off valves wont necessarily shut off all the water within a unit because the high pressure can sometimes prevent the shut off valves from working 100% within all units.

Basically the tech from ClearView said best thing to do is to install a regulator for both lines and to open up some room for access...again this can only be done when the water is shut off to the building.

This will not be done for weeks if not a month or so (unless I fork out $3,000 to shut off the water to the entire building) so basically I cannot have this fixed until that is done...that is going to be some annoying water going on 24-7 in the shower during that time *sigh*.

But I will gladly use ClearView again to do the plumbing services once I am able to, the tech was super nice, informative and was good about not charging me for the assessment at all.

In the interim, if anyone has ANY suggestions to reduce the amount of water pumping outta the bath tub faucet without the water being shut off I am all ears...otherwise seems like I am SOL until the water is out for the building which is regular maintenance hopefully soon...

[IGGYRULES]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Update:

ClearView is phenom.

Unfortunately our issue has not been resolved. Basically because we live in a condo unit, the shut off valves are not an exact science so to speak, meaning because the condo pumps out heavy pressure the shut off valves wont necessarily shut off all the water within a unit because the high pressure can sometimes prevent the shut off valves from working 100% within all units.

Basically the tech from ClearView said best thing to do is to install a regulator for both lines and to open up some room for access...again this can only be done when the water is shut off to the building.

This will not be done for weeks if not a month or so (unless I fork out $3,000 to shut off the water to the entire building) so basically I cannot have this fixed until that is done...that is going to be some annoying water going on 24-7 in the shower during that time *sigh*.

But I will gladly use ClearView again to do the plumbing services once I am able to, the tech was super nice, informative and was good about not charging me for the assessment at all.

In the interim, if anyone has ANY suggestions to reduce the amount of water pumping outta the bath tub faucet without the water being shut off I am all ears...otherwise seems like I am SOL until the water is out for the building which is regular maintenance hopefully soon...

Not sure I buy that. Those shut off valves should be fine for much more pressure than your supply pressure should be. They'd be regulating the supply to the units from the mechanical room and I doubt it would be more than 80psi. I'd get a second opinion if I were you.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I'm in Vetro.

Hah, so am I. I know the valves you're talking about, and yes, they are a royal pain in the arse to get at.

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

In the interim, if anyone has ANY suggestions to reduce the amount of water pumping outta the bath tub faucet without the water being shut off I am all ears...otherwise seems like I am SOL until the water is out for the building which is regular maintenance hopefully soon...

Uh, well you know they JUST did it not that long ago, hey?

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Hah, so am I. I know the valves you're talking about, and yes, they are a royal pain in the arse to get at.

Uh, well you know they JUST did it not that long ago, hey?

Yup, which sucks.

I shut them off finally but still no chance at getting the water fully off.

The tech said they seemed to be going at we'll over 100psi, potentially 80 psi.

Now I have the bath tub faucet running 24/7, which is quite annoying but I guess manageable.

I'm not really sure what my other options are now unless I pay Vetro to shut off the water to the building which is $3,000 out of pocket. The alternative unfortunately other than the nuisance to me becomes them paying for unused 24/7 water/gas being used on the bath tub running until the water's shut off next.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

Not sure I buy that. Those shut off valves should be fine for much more pressure than your supply pressure should be. They'd be regulating the supply to the units from the mechanical room and I doubt it would be more than 80psi. I'd get a second opinion if I were you.

I get what you're saying but I've had myself, friends and now a plumber confirm and play with the shut off valve to the close position.

Something is causing it to not function properly, with the age of our building which is relatively new too much pressure causing the problem doesn't seem too far fetched?

[onetwo_threefour]

I don't know, it seems far fetched to me as well, but IANAP. If a standard faucet valve can manage to hold back all that pressure in the whole building, why not an inline brass ball valve. Every single faucet in your unit has to shut off against all the pressure in the lines every time you turn the water off. Furthermore, the entire point of the shutoff valve is to allow you to shut off your water in an emergency.

Sure, it sounds like the shutoff isn't working properly, but the explanation sounds far-fetched to me as well. If a plumber told me that my shutoff wasn't really meant to shut off the water, I'd definitely get a second opinion. He could have just said it was a faulty shutoff valve and I would tend to believe that over what you were told.

The other thing I wonder about is this whole $3000 to turn the water off thing. Where's that coming from. The building is responsible for the plumbing up to the shutoff valve leading into your unit as far as I know. If the shutoff isn't working I would think it is the condo corp.'s responsibility to fix it. It doesn't make sense that you would be responsible to fix/maintain something that relies on you being able to shut down the whole building's plumbing to fix it (although whatever the by-laws say will govern). Have you discussed the situation with the property manager in terms of having them look into it?

[WilsonFourTwo]

^ Exactly right.

There's no way that the individual unit owner should be responsible for in-wall plumbing. That's common property and is under the management of the corporation. Your condo must have a maintenance number? Or at the very least the condo management company. I'd go so far as to say that there may even be trouble if you go it alone.

I had a leak (behind the shower) and it was the corporation who handled everything related to it, including arranging the plumber and rebuilding the bathroom below my (where the water leaked and caused big damage).

[normtwofinger]

Call Hoover Plumbing. They were the plumbing company when Vetro was built.

I worked on the framing on Vetro. There are sometimes more shut off valves in the hallway ceiling. There should be access panels. I believe these valves control water to your heater/ac unit, but maybe someone made an error and one of the could be your main shut off.

Edit: Thinking about it more, there should be a shut off for the entire floor. It's been 5 years but I believe it may be in the hallway ceiling on the elevator side in the west corner. Other than that you can probably ask the mgmt where it is and shut down the floor.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Sure, it sounds like the shutoff isn't working properly, but the explanation sounds far-fetched to me as well. If a plumber told me that my shutoff wasn't really meant to shut off the water, I'd definitely get a second opinion. He could have just said it was a faulty shutoff valve and I would tend to believe that over what you were told.

The other thing I wonder about is this whole $3000 to turn the water off thing. Where's that coming from. The building is responsible for the plumbing up to the shutoff valve leading into your unit as far as I know. If the shutoff isn't working I would think it is the condo corp.'s responsibility to fix it. It doesn't make sense that you would be responsible to fix/maintain something that relies on you being able to shut down the whole building's plumbing to fix it (although whatever the by-laws say will govern). Have you discussed the situation with the property manager in terms of having them look into it?

Totally agree. It's a shut off valve, not a shut off but let a tiny bit through valve. Yours is obviously faulty because it is not doing what it is supposed to do.

You need that valve to work in case of emergencies. If I was you I would cover yourself and report it to your property manager asap insisting it be fixed asap. You can't be held ransom for something that (I would presume) is their responsibility to maintain in a good working order. The plumber imo is full of merde.

Also, in one of your pics is that red danger tape wrapped around the valve? Sometimes that is wrapped there to mark a piece of faulty/broken equipment? Maybe this is something that they were aware off but got overlooked/ covered up before rectifying during the build?

[Rjcsjc62]

Also, in one of your pics is that red danger tape wrapped around the valve? Sometimes that is wrapped there to mark a piece of faulty/broken equipment? Maybe this is something that they were aware off but got overlooked/ covered up before rectifying during the build?[/QUOTE]


Plumbers use flagging tape to identify the valve for the drywallers. it indicates to them that an access door willl be required in that location.

[normtwofinger]

I believe the tape was there for a pressure test and was just left behind.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Sure, it sounds like the shutoff isn't working properly, but the explanation sounds far-fetched to me as well. If a plumber told me that my shutoff wasn't really meant to shut off the water, I'd definitely get a second opinion. He could have just said it was a faulty shutoff valve and I would tend to believe that over what you were told.

Thanks for the response and advice.

I may have done a not so great explaining what the plumber said to me...he stated that my shut-off valve wasn't functioning properly (my property management company has confirmed this issue that a lot of the units don't have a properly functioning shut-off valve, that some of them tend to seize when attempting to close them for the first time and that the builders didn't do a great job installing them both in location and useability).

The plumbers explanation to me was that apartment and condos in general tend to pump a lot of pressure through their lines, some upwards of 80 psi and that he has seen some as high as 100 psi. He figured that the reason that the shut-off valve didn't shut off the water 100% was because the high-pressure erroded the shut-off valves ability to close the water supply completely...he also mentioned that this would seem aligned with the reason my bathroom faucet was now faulty (blown cartridge) and why I noticed leaking in other faucets like my kitchen.

His solution was to replace the shut-off valves and to add a regulator to both of them to control the pressure coming into the unit so that the high pressure wouldn't erode the new shut off valves and cause the leaking in the faucets and the issues he thought that caused the blown cartridge in the bath tub faucet (he said that this work would cost about $1,200).

The above didn't seem too far-fetched too me, but as I prefaced in my original posting I'm a complete n00b when it comes to these things, so obviously a lot of you guys know better than me. Let me know what your thoughts are...

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

The other thing I wonder about is this whole $3000 to turn the water off thing. Where's that coming from. The building is responsible for the plumbing up to the shutoff valve leading into your unit as far as I know. If the shutoff isn't working I would think it is the condo corp.'s responsibility to fix it. It doesn't make sense that you would be responsible to fix/maintain something that relies on you being able to shut down the whole building's plumbing to fix it (although whatever the by-laws say will govern). Have you discussed the situation with the property manager in terms of having them look into it?

These comments are the ones that I am unsure about and that obviously I need to do some digging and poking around with our management company. I will literally look through my initial condo documents now after I finish responding.

I know that our condo management company once every couple of months or so puts up notices that the water will be shut off to the entire building for the duration of one work-day (8AM-6PM) and in these notices they mention if you need any plumbing done or replacement of your shut-off valves that this is the prime time to do so.

We also have a condo website and I remember post-flood residents of units were talking about issues regarding shut off valves and a board member talked about: "we do have a common issue throughout many suites with the shut off valves, in that some of them seize up when trying to turn them off. I shut off my valves to replace a leaky faucet, and then couldn't get them turned back on. That's why I had mine replaced (took that opportunity to install shut off valves at the sinks as well). Unfortunately since the pipes are within your suite it's not common property and not covered by the condo corp (I had to pay for my shut off replacements myself for about $800, but that was for a full days work plus parts)."

When I called my property manager about my issue yesterday afternoon, she pretty much re-iterated the above and also said that if an emergency required you to shut off water to the entire building because your shut-off valves weren't functioning properly (and this was not a scheduled maintenance) that this would be an out-of-pocket expense to the resident for $3,000 (apparently this JUST had to be done a few weeks prior because a unit had a plumbing emergency and they needed to sell their unit and so they bit the bullet).

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

There's no way that the individual unit owner should be responsible for in-wall plumbing. That's common property and is under the management of the corporation. Your condo must have a maintenance number? Or at the very least the condo management company. I'd go so far as to say that there may even be trouble if you go it alone.

Originally Posted by Bagor

Totally agree. It's a shut off valve, not a shut off but let a tiny bit through valve. Yours is obviously faulty because it is not doing what it is supposed to do.

You need that valve to work in case of emergencies. If I was you I would cover yourself and report it to your property manager asap insisting it be fixed asap. You can't be held ransom for something that (I would presume) is their responsibility to maintain in a good working order. The plumber imo is full of merde.

I would say that their argument is that the shut-off valve is in my coatroom closet in my unit, and that isn't common property?

My point to them, that I have yet to make is that because of this issue if we wait until the next scheduled maintenance which asides from the nuisance of the water running 24-7 in my bath tub (at almost full speed) that they are seeing a racked up water and heat bill as they pay for water and gas, I'm not sure what the bill will look like if this has to be the case for months.

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

Call Hoover Plumbing. They were the plumbing company when Vetro was built.

I worked on the framing on Vetro. There are sometimes more shut off valves in the hallway ceiling. There should be access panels. I believe these valves control water to your heater/ac unit, but maybe someone made an error and one of the could be your main shut off.

Edit: Thinking about it more, there should be a shut off for the entire floor. It's been 5 years but I believe it may be in the hallway ceiling on the elevator side in the west corner. Other than that you can probably ask the mgmt where it is and shut down the floor.

After looking through my condo documentation I will do just that...but I have a feeling that if what you said is true my condo management company knows NOTHING about it because when I called yesterday all I was told by the manager was, well you can shut off the buildings water supply for $3,000...surprised that I wouldn't have been told about just the floor's shut-off if they knew.

[onetwo_threefour]

Sounds like you may need to escalate things a little perhaps by getting in touch with a Board member. I partially disagree with WilsonFourTwo about in-wall plumbing, in that all plumbing after the shutoff valve is definitely the unit owner's responsibility unless you have unusual by-laws. It is possible that the shut-off valve is considered not to be common property, but that is counter-intuitive since you cannot replace it without interfering with the water service for everyone else. One would think that as a matter of practicality it would make more sense for everything up to and including the shut-off to be the condo corp.'s responsibility even though the shutoff is inside the unit. Granted, that could create situations where the condo corp. is responsible for a section of pipe and a valve that it does not have regular access to for inspection, but it still seems more practical than the alternative. Either way, one would think that in a building as big as Vetro, there should be floor by floor shut offs. Maybe calling Hoover is your best bet.

Do you carry condo unit owners insurance? This may be something that could be claimed under your insurance? Really not sure about that though.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Update:

I had a friend talk me through what he thought the issue with my faucet was and after taking the handle off, I applied pliers to the brass stud to shut off the water and voila it worked.

Looks like one of the plastic parts is stripped so I will go get a new part and hopefully that fixes the issue long-term.

Unfortunately of course the issue of the shut off valves remain but that is no longer an emergency and I can hopefully wait to fix it during the next maintenance cycle of the buildings water being shut off.

[normtwofinger]

Awesome it's fixed! Good to hear.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Update:

I had a friend talk me through what he thought the issue with my faucet was and after taking the handle off, I applied pliers to the brass stud to shut off the water and voila it worked.

Looks like one of the plastic parts is stripped so I will go get a new part and hopefully that fixes the issue long-term.

Unfortunately of course the issue of the shut off valves remain but that is no longer an emergency and I can hopefully wait to fix it during the next maintenance cycle of the buildings water being shut off.

I can't understand why your plumber didn't look at this first off.

[onetwo_threefour]

^ Especially since that was something someone suggested doing in this thread!?!

Post 9...


Then again, if you take plumbing advice from a lawyer, who knows what you'll get...