Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarley
I find it ridiculous that we still have publicly funded Catholic schools in this province. The public and catholic systems should be merged, then offer comparative religion as an elective class - problem solved.
What's the problem- that you happen to find it ridiculous?
By posting your situation in a public forum for all to discuss, do you not open yourself up for this type of criticism though?
Not really, the OP's initial post asked specific questions about contributing to the catholic school system and how to get his child into it, he didn't ask for people opinions if he should use the catholic system
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Not really, the OP's initial post asked specific questions about contributing to the catholic school system and how to get his child into it, he didn't ask for people opinions if he should use the catholic system
It doesn't matter how well you craft a posting - someone will give you an opinion; solicited or not.
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What's the problem- that you happen to find it ridiculous?
There are multiple problems that lead to me finding the current situation ridiculous:
A) As it stands, our secular government is currently providing pubic funds to promote religion, does this not conflict withe the separation of church and state philosophy? (Yes I realize that the religious aspect of the Catholic system has been watered down to the point where students are getting essentially the same education as in the public system - even more reason to merge).
B) If it is deemed fine that public funds be directed towards religious education, why is it only for Catholics? Where are the Anglican/Hindu/Muslim/Buddhist/Jewish/Sikh/Lutheran schools?
C) The main reason for me is economic. The current situation means that we need two massive bureaucracies to run systems that provide the same thing overlapping the same geography. By merging both systems, we can streamline real estate, administration, and systems to create greater efficiency via greater economies of scale - ideally allowing these savings to go directly towards improved education for students.
We have a Lutheran school here. It falls under the Golden Hills School Division, so one presumes if you direct your school tax toward the general school system, that's where they get their funding from. The Hutterite colony schools are also listed with Golden Hills, so they get public funding as well.
We moved our kid from the public junior high here, to the Catholic system, because the junior high here is ####e, for a great number of reasons. We are a mix of agnostic/atheist/searching. It was never a problem. Kid wasn't so keen on the religion classes but we just encouraged her to look at them as a slice of history.
There are multiple problems that lead to me finding the current situation ridiculous:
.....
Well that sounds pragmatic and all but it isn't that simple. You are completely ignoring the history of the country and the need to protect its traditional minorities ie. English in Quebec, French in ROC.
Google "Section 93 of the Constitution Act" which protects minority education/language rights at Confederation. Not even the equality provisions of the Charter abrogate section 93.
Catholics (who were mostly French at one time) in Alberta have the same constitutionally protected rights that allows you as an Albertan to move to Quebec, for example, and expect your children to get a public education in English.
It may or may not be needed now but the only way it changes is you ask your elected members to pull a "Meech Lake" or "Charlottetown Accord" ie. snowball's chance down there.
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarley
C) The main reason for me is economic. The current situation means that we need two massive bureaucracies to run systems that provide the same thing overlapping the same geography. By merging both systems, we can streamline real estate, administration, and systems to create greater efficiency via greater economies of scale - ideally allowing these savings to go directly towards improved education for students.
Some of those are already being done. For example with real estate, some schools share fields and sports equipment. You will also rarely see a new community build both schools without there being a demand for the extra class space.
The other thing is that there is a certain level of competition. Both school boards want to be regarded as offering the best quality education, and by having two boards one could say that they are doing what they can to try and "beat" the other one. Of course not the same as having two businesses compete, but at least it is there.
There are multiple problems that lead to me finding the current situation ridiculous:
A) As it stands, our secular government is currently providing pubic funds to promote religion, does this not conflict withe the separation of church and state philosophy? (Yes I realize that the religious aspect of the Catholic system has been watered down to the point where students are getting essentially the same education as in the public system - even more reason to merge).
B) If it is deemed fine that public funds be directed towards religious education, why is it only for Catholics? Where are the Anglican/Hindu/Muslim/Buddhist/Jewish/Sikh/Lutheran schools?
C) The main reason for me is economic. The current situation means that we need two massive bureaucracies to run systems that provide the same thing overlapping the same geography. By merging both systems, we can streamline real estate, administration, and systems to create greater efficiency via greater economies of scale - ideally allowing these savings to go directly towards improved education for students.
I agree, based on reason C. I tried to bring that up when I ran for public school trustee in 2010 and got zero traction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattleflamer
Well that sounds pragmatic and all but it isn't that simple. You are completely ignoring the history of the country and the need to protect its traditional minorities ie. English in Quebec, French in ROC.
Google "Section 93 of the Constitution Act" which protects minority education/language rights at Confederation. Not even the equality provisions of the Charter abrogate section 93.
Catholics (who were mostly French at one time) in Alberta have the same constitutionally protected rights that allows you as an Albertan to move to Quebec, for example, and expect your children to get a public education in English.
It may or may not be needed now but the only way it changes is you ask your elected members to pull a "Meech Lake" or "Charlottetown Accord" ie. snowball's chance down there.
This isn't the case. Other provinces have only one school system and its fine. There is no need too alter the constitution or anything like that. Someone just needs the political will, IMO.
A) As it stands, our secular government is currently providing pubic funds to promote religion, does this not conflict withe the separation of church and state philosophy?
Canada doesn't have a hard separation of church and state really. Take a look at your change next time and notice that the leader of a church is on the back of the coins or take a look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It starts with "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law." What we do have is a freedom of religion law.
You may not agree with the entirety of the Canadian Constitution Act and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, specifically section 29 that addresses the rules pertaining to separate school system, but please don't confuse our laws with that of the US.
This isn't the case. Other provinces have only one school system and its fine. There is no need too alter the constitution or anything like that. Someone just needs the political will, IMO.
Actually it would be pretty close to exactly that. I'm not saying it's necessary wrong to re-evaluate and alter the Canadian Constitution, especially when the section in question has it's roots in a 1905 act, but it does clearly establish the laws regarding the separate school system and pretty much says Alberta's system is fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section...s_and_Freedoms
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 08-23-2013 at 05:17 PM.
I agree, based on reason C. I tried to bring that up when I ran for public school trustee in 2010 and got zero traction.
This isn't the case. Other provinces have only one school system and its fine. There is no need too alter the constitution or anything like that. Someone just needs the political will, IMO.
I can't speak to other provinces but Ontario has both Catholic and Public school boards.
Actually it would be pretty close to exactly that. I'm not saying it's necessary wrong to re-evaluate and alter the Canadian Constitution, especially when the section in question has it's roots in a 1905 act, but it does clearly establish the laws regarding the separate school system and pretty much says Alberta's system is fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section...s_and_Freedoms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicant
I can't speak to other provinces but Ontario has both Catholic and Public school boards.
Seven of the thirteen provinces/territories allow for funding to schools that are faith based. Both Ontario and Alberta fall into that category, but the other option is viable. Some provinces have never had a separate school board, and Manitoba hasn't since about 1890. While I have no doubt that there would be opposition, I still support one all inclusive board.
I know as a kid I always thought they were doing something amazing in Catholic school. I had no idea what, but I was always wondering. Then, as I got older, I realised they were doing the exact same thing as we were in public school, save for one hour a week. Why we build two bureaucracies, two buildings and all the trappings, have parents fundraise to build two playgrounds and eventually elect two boards to oversee it all is just perplexing.
Seven of the thirteen provinces/territories allow for funding to schools that are faith based. Both Ontario and Alberta fall into that category, but the other option is viable. Some provinces have never had a separate school board, and Manitoba hasn't since about 1890. While I have no doubt that there would be opposition, I still support one all inclusive board.
I know as a kid I always thought they were doing something amazing in Catholic school. I had no idea what, but I was always wondering. Then, as I got older, I realised they were doing the exact same thing as we were in public school, save for one hour a week. Why we build two bureaucracies, two buildings and all the trappings, have parents fundraise to build two playgrounds and eventually elect two boards to oversee it all is just perplexing.
Oh I agree that one system would be more than enough.
