Catholic Schools, Future Parents, and Lying On Your "School Support Declaration"

[PsYcNeT]

Alright, so here's the skinny.

We bought a house, and the city has issued us a Natural School Support Declaration. We want to send our future child to the Catholic school around the corner (because it's so damn close). For reference, we are both Agnostic (I was raised Jewish, she was raised in China so non-religion is the rule of the day).

Questions:

a) can we lie on our Natural School Support Declaration to increase our chances of successfully sending our child through the Catholic system? (it appears to indicate the only Roman Catholics can contribute to the Catholic system? Or just that they must [by law? weird])

b) does it even matter?

c) are there ramifications to this? Like, will the City check us against Catholic record or such-like, or could we face fraud charges or something else?

d) what else would one have to do in Alberta to get a non-Catholic child into the Catholic system, outside of the parents going through a formal conversion, baptism, and Sundays in church?

[Minnie]

Going only by what I know for where I live, you have freedom of choice in deciding which way to direct the school portion of the tax. We directed ours to the Catholic school here, when our daughter attended. She no longer goes there, and we haven't changed anything.

As far as getting your kid into the Catholic school system, this is how it was explained to us and we are not Catholic. Basically, you just go register your kid at the school and they have to take you, with one exception - if it came down to a waiting list, for example, and there was one spot left in whatever grade you wanted to put your kid into, the Catholic kid takes priority, so they'd get the spot and you'd be SOL. I think that's probably a very generalized take on things but that's what the principal here told us.

I have no idea if that would change if it was private Catholic school where you had to go through an application process and paid tuition fees, etc. I don't even know if private Catholic schools exist - I imagine they must?

[psicodude]

The declaration means nothing other than the province proving that the Catholic system is still warranted. All funding for K-12 in Alberta is done per student or CEU (Credit Equivalent Unit) and is the exact same amount regardless of system or District. Charter and private schools are the only exception as they receive a lower rate (70% I believe).

Other than that, everything Minnie said is correct. I would also suggest that you register early (as soon as registration opens) as it is a first come first served system and both Districts are nearing capacity in many of their schools - especially those in the 'burbs.

[PsYcNeT]

Well the weird thing is that the document explicitly states "Individuals who are Roman Catholic must direct their taxes in support of schools to the Roman Catholic seperate school board." and "That all other individuals must direct their taxes in support of schools to the public school district."

The only options on the declaration portion aren't "my taxes go to public/catholic" they are "I am Roman Catholic Yes/No" and that's it.

It's really weird.

[mustache ride]

So not being catholic, are you gonna get weird once your kids start taking religious classes?

[Daradon]

You can choose where you send your taxes. That's why they ask you in the annual civic census. You can even change. I suggest you send where you want your kid to go. Although it tends to trend on your beliefs, it doesn't have to.

For a long while the education in the catholic schools was better, though I've heard it's about the same now. Same went for violence and misbehavior.

I grew up Catholic, and even though my beliefs went through a change in my late teens, I still appreciated the added perspective.

[WhiteTiger]

I've never been a fan of forced religion, which is what Catholic school, even if you aren't Catholic, is. If you are serious and the only reason you are considering Catholic school is because it's "closer"...I'd urge you to re-evaluate your needs vs your kids development.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I've never been a fan of forced religion, which is what Catholic school, even if you aren't Catholic, is. If you are serious and the only reason you are considering Catholic school is because it's "closer"...I'd urge you to re-evaluate your needs vs your kids development.

I dunno if I would call it forced religion, there were a lot of people from different religions and backgrounds (even atheist) when I was there and they didn't have much problem with it. And that was a long time ago, I'd imagine it only got softer after that.

As I mentioned above, it's not always a distance issue. Some parents want to send their children to the Catholic board because they feel it's a better education (was for a while, I heard it's about the same now) and a better/safer environment.

Cept for the visiting priests of course! Har Har!

I was lucky in high school though. I went to Bishop Carroll and for your religion course you could take any number of a multitude of topics or course. I took a unit on Buddism, Satan in Scripture (really what teen doesn't want to read up on 'true' exorcism stories!), science and spirituality where we looked at chaos theory and relativity, and other things.

I also don't think the 'religion' portion is compulsory after grade ten. Course most of your impressionable years are over by then and you're rebelling anyway.

Parents could also easily tell their kids that while they don't belief in Christ, or other Christian and Catholic stories and principles, that the extra perspective may give them something to think about. And that if they are confused about anything when they get back home they can bring it up.

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't say it was ever forced or pushed. It's fairly unobtrusive. Generally on religious celebration a month (which usually coincided with a holiday anyway) and a prayer to start the day. And a short religious class, which basically just teaches good values.

Though we did learn how to say the rosary... and went at it pretty hard one year. Maybe it was more intense than I originally argued, and I didn't notice it because I grew up with that in my family.

Still, I'd say there are other reasons, besides distance or religion, that would come into choosing a Catholic school.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Still, I'd say there are other reasons, besides distance or religion, that would come into choosing a Catholic school.

I must have gone to some different Catholic schools. Or may have had a different perspective on 'forced' vs 'required'.

I also agree that there are a lot of reasons to choose one school over the other, but from the OP's post, it seemed to read like the only deciding factor was "It's the closest school".

[jammies]

Remember that once you check off "Catholic" on those forms, they can legally send in the Spanish Inquisition. So - expect them.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

a) can we lie on our Natural School Support Declaration to increase our chances of successfully sending our child through the Catholic system?

I'm pretty sure, it's like a fact or something that you will go to hell if you lie on your declaration.

d) what else would one have to do in Alberta to get a non-Catholic child into the Catholic system, outside of the parents going through a formal conversion, baptism, and Sundays in church?

If you're actually trying to cheat the system, just get your kid(s) baptized. You get the piece of paper and can move on from there. You don't need to attend church regularly or anything.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Alright, so here's the skinny.

...

b) does it even matter?

...

Not really. My understanding of education funding in Alberta is that you can direct your portion of taxes to one school district, but the money from municipal taxes only covers less than half of their budgets. The districts receive money determined by a set amount for each student (depending on age, special needs, etc), with the extra money provided by the province. I highly doubt that the municipalities release information to the schools about where individual taxes are directed, so I wouldn't worry about them holding that information against you.

That said, you should know that if you do support the Catholic system you are supporting an organization that discriminates against non-Catholics. If you are Catholic you can teach in any district, but if not you will find it very difficult if not impossible to get a teaching job with a Catholic school. I would have no problem with this if the Catholic schools were subject to the same rules as private schools, but they are not.

Finally, I was educated in the Catholic system and while there were many problems that I had with the sysytem, I would never expect the Spanish Inquisition.

[PsYcNeT]

I've discussed my reasons in past threads for wanting to send my child through the Catholic system that don't have to do with proximity to the school. I myself went partially through the private system and then the public system, and I wouldn't recommend either.

It's good to hear that simply directing my taxes to the Catholic board and baptising my child will increase my chances of gaining admittance.

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I've never been a fan of forced religion, which is what Catholic school, even if you aren't Catholic, is. If you are serious and the only reason you are considering Catholic school is because it's "closer"...I'd urge you to re-evaluate your needs vs your kids development.

I'm not sure what priest touched you, but all my friends that went through Calgary's Catholic system are fine people, typically Agnostic/Atheist, and well versed on the differences of religion. Having a dissenting voice to my own personal ideas on spirituality and religion within my own home will spur debate and inquiry that I might not otherwise experience. My child will not be in danger being in the Catholic system, and I will have an active hand in their development.

Really, to suggest that it's irresponsible to expose your child to religious ideas is ludicrous. It just means I will have to work harder as a parent to ensure they understand what they're being taught. I'm not afraid of that job.

[Cheese]

send your kids wherever you want and support the school system of choice. Lets face it, there is no true Catholic except by name.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not sure what priest touched you

Wow.

Just, wow. That came out of nowhere.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Really, to suggest that it's irresponsible to expose your child to religious ideas is ludicrous. It just means I will have to work harder as a parent to ensure they understand what they're being taught. I'm not afraid of that job.

Wow. Ludicrous? Why even post here if you reflexively dismiss dissenting opinions?

You know an awful lot about parenting for someone who isn't a parent. Must be nice.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Plett25

Wow.

Just, wow. That came out of nowhere.

Wow. Ludicrous? Why even post here if you reflexively dismiss dissenting opinions?

You know an awful lot about parenting for someone who isn't a parent. Must be nice.

Well considering I posited this thread to get answers about the avenues I was pursuing in a completely clinical and information-gathering sense, and it got turned around into both a hilarious moralistic and anti-religious argument.

I wasn't asking for your opinions on my going to hell for lying to Jesus/The Pope/Whatever, nor was I asking whether you thought it was a good idea to send my child to a school run by pederasts. I was asking for facts.

The thread isn't titled "Critique My Choices: The Thread".

[Zarley]

I find it ridiculous that we still have publicly funded Catholic schools in this province. The public and catholic systems should be merged, then offer comparative religion as an elective class - problem solved.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I've discussed my reasons in past threads for wanting to send my child through the Catholic system that don't have to do with proximity to the school. I myself went partially through the private system and then the public system, and I wouldn't recommend either.

It's good to hear that simply directing my taxes to the Catholic board and baptising my child will increase my chances of gaining admittance.



I'm not sure what priest touched you, but all my friends that went through Calgary's Catholic system are fine people, typically Agnostic/Atheist, and well versed on the differences of religion. Having a dissenting voice to my own personal ideas on spirituality and religion within my own home will spur debate and inquiry that I might not otherwise experience. My child will not be in danger being in the Catholic system, and I will have an active hand in their development.

Really, to suggest that it's irresponsible to expose your child to religious ideas is ludicrous. It just means I will have to work harder as a parent to ensure they understand what they're being taught. I'm not afraid of that job.

I was in something of the same situation but my wife was nominally catholic. I sent the kids to the Catholic system as I thought there was probably some good in exposing them to religion so they could figure things out for themselves. I do remember my 12 year old daughter coming home upset because a teacher suggested she become a nun and another time, her not able to participate in a school confirmation ceremony because she wasn't baptized. I also hoped that their would be more discipline in the Catholic system but I don't think that is the case.

There is also the social aspect as their school friends are all Catholic, so if you are involved with your kids and thus their parents, you will be dealing with a lot of Catholics of various religiosity. Me being raised as an Orangeman/atheist, I kept my thoughts and background to myself about their religion but on a scale of one to ten, it's probably only a 4 in terms of being out of touch.

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I find it ridiculous that we still have publicly funded Catholic schools in this province. The public and catholic systems should be merged, then offer comparative religion as an elective class - problem solved.

I don't want my kid hanging out with the great unwashed non-Catholics.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well considering I posited this thread to get answers about the avenues I was pursuing in a completely clinical and information-gathering sense, and it got turned around into both a hilarious moralistic and anti-religious argument.

I wasn't asking for your opinions on my going to hell for lying to Jesus/The Pope/Whatever, nor was I asking whether you thought it was a good idea to send my child to a school run by pederasts. I was asking for facts.

The thread isn't titled "Critique My Choices: The Thread".

By posting your situation in a public forum for all to discuss, do you not open yourself up for this type of criticism though?