Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by valo403

Umm no, nobody called anyone a racist. Pointing out that race plays an issue in the legal system somewhere is not calling you a racist. What a bizarre conclusion to reach.

here you go:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.

I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.

Seems that puckluck is suggesting that some posters are racist, which is then followed by:

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Imagine if TM was cc'ing and saw Z walking through his neighbourhood wearing a hoodie and acting suspicious. TM follows an unarmed Z, stuff happens and TM shoots Z dead. THe police show up and immediately claim it was self defense and everyone goes home except Z, who is dead. TM gets arrested 44 days later after public pressure for the law to do something more than just decide it was self defense. TM walks free a couple of weeks later.
I wonder if people would still feel the same as they do now.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

here you go:



Seems that puckluck is suggesting that some posters are racist, which is then followed by:

Really making some huge and ridiculous jumps there, you've also taken puckluck's post and run with it without any input from him.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by valo403

Really making some huge and ridiculous jumps there, you've also taken puckluck's post and run with it without any input from him.

Why else would he be suggesting that most people in this thread that are pro-not guilty would change their mind if the roles were reversed? Because Martin is younger than him? If so, fine, I jumped the gun, but somehow, I get the impression that that is not the statement that he is trying to make.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Why else would he be suggesting that most people in this thread that are pro-not guilty would change their mind if the roles were reversed? Because Martin is younger than him? If so, fine, I jumped the gun, but somehow, I get the impression that that is not the statement that he is trying to make.

No idea what his point was, I didn't even comment on his post (whoops actually I did, but not on any sort of racist line of thinking). Either way, pointing out that race plays a role, or has played a role, in the legal system, particularly in the US, isn't racist, nor does it even remotely insinuate that another poster is racist.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Rofl. Yet another poster has gone full ######.

So sad. So many posters I used to respect in this thread just not using both halves of their brain for this case.

And to people flipping the script, YES, I would feel 100% exactly the same way.

Let's add a couple more details:
- Trayvon is a well respected member of the community and has gained enough trust from the entire community to lead the neighborhood watch.
- Zimmerman dressed like a thug, was high on drugs and was skulking around houses.

And then the exact same thing occured. Trayvon was overzealous and tried to find Zimmerman's location after calling 911. Zimmerman punched Trayvon in the face, Trayvon tries to disengage but cannot because he's pinned to the ground. Then he shoots in self defence. Unfortunately the single shot goes through Zimmerman's heart.

Then yes, I would absolutely agree with the acquittal of Trayvon.

Frick guys. We're in Canada. The vast majority of posters have been brought up here in a tolerant, progressive society. It's insulting to accuse us of being racists that are incapable of looking at evidence. Frankly, it says a lot about your own character when you make these remarks.

You know, since we're going on hypothetiUcals here. What evidence would you (trayvon supporters) need to have in order for you to change your mind about this case? Or was he guilty 100% from the start regardless?

I, for the record, think both are at fault, I'm not a trayvon fanboy by any means. I have an issue with your hypothetical in which you stated Zimmerman was dressed as a thug in a role reversal scenario. If you're suggesting that trayvon was dressed as a "thug" that night then you're wrong. I saw the crime scene photo of his dead body and he was wearing a tight, preppy flannel hoody and skinny khakis with the cuffs rolled up. His shoes looked like Ralph Lauren boating shoes that he was wearing without socks. Maybe the definition of what is gangsta dress has changed but from that pic he doesn't look threatening at all.

[terminator]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I, for the record, think both are at fault, I'm not a trayvon fanboy by any means. I have an issue with your hypothetical in which you stated Zimmerman was dressed as a thug in a role reversal scenario. If you're suggesting that trayvon was dressed as a "thug" that night then you're wrong. I saw the crime scene photo of his dead body and he was wearing a tight, preppy flannel hoody and skinny khakis with the cuffs rolled up. His shoes looked like Ralph Lauren boating shoes that he was wearing without socks. Maybe the definition of what is gangsta dress has changed but from that pic he doesn't look threatening at all.

Further, dressing like a thug does not make one a thug.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I, for the record, think both are at fault, I'm not a trayvon fanboy by any means. I have an issue with your hypothetical in which you stated Zimmerman was dressed as a thug in a role reversal scenario. If you're suggesting that trayvon was dressed as a "thug" that night then you're wrong. I saw the crime scene photo of his dead body and he was wearing a tight, preppy flannel hoody and skinny khakis with the cuffs rolled up. His shoes looked like Ralph Lauren boating shoes that he was wearing without socks. Maybe the definition of what is gangsta dress has changed but from that pic he doesn't look threatening at all.

Don't forget the high on drugs part, which is of course a complete fabrication.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by blankall

Zimmerman is also a visible minority.

Do you think that hispanics are well treated in American society? The idea that the justice system would side with an hispanic, especially one that had great political pressure against him, is ridiculous.



http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...acks-hispanics

I'm not saying that Zimmerman's motives weren't motivated by racism. That's totally possible. Blacks and hispanics can be racist towards eachother. But the idea that the justice system, or American society in general, is somehow pro-hispanic is ridiculous.

Zimmerman is half hispanic and half white or do you call him a hispanic for arguments sake?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Ark2

here you go:



Seems that puckluck is suggesting that some posters are racist, which is then followed by:

Nope just the conclusions of reading the board for several years.

It's amusing what posters defend and criticize.

I didn't even have to open the thread to know which posters would be commenting and what their position was going to be.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I, for the record, think both are at fault, I'm not a trayvon fanboy by any means. I have an issue with your hypothetical in which you stated Zimmerman was dressed as a thug in a role reversal scenario. If you're suggesting that trayvon was dressed as a "thug" that night then you're wrong. I saw the crime scene photo of his dead body and he was wearing a tight, preppy flannel hoody and skinny khakis with the cuffs rolled up. His shoes looked like Ralph Lauren boating shoes that he was wearing without socks. Maybe the definition of what is gangsta dress has changed but from that pic he doesn't look threatening at all.

Here's an actual picture of the corpse (not graphic, face is blurred and no blood).

http://www.bob-owens.com/wp-content/...18_634x471.jpg

He's wearing sneakers, khakis, and looser hoodie. But no, not especially thugged out.

Zimmerman was also dealing with a rash of break ins in his gated community by young black males. He saw a young black male who was a stranger to him on the private property he had been assigned to patrol. Did that give him a right to call the police? Get out of his car and observe where Martin was going? Either way, it's what happened next that really decides it for me. Unfortunately, only Zimmerman knows that.

Edit: Also, the site I've linked is awful. I don't support it, but it does have the clearest picture of Trayvon's clothes I could find.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Nope just the conclusions of reading the board for several years.

It's amusing what posters defend and criticize.

I didn't even have to open the thread to know which posters would be commenting and what their position was going to be.

So please elaborate, why is it that you think some posters would reverse their opinions if the roles were reversed?

[terminator]

Originally Posted by Ark2

So please elaborate, why is it that you think some posters would reverse their opinions if the roles were reversed?

He did elaborate, he said based on his previous observations he knew which posters would be posting in favor of which position.

It's kind of like opening a dog thread and assuming that Silver will be posting against dogs.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by terminator

He did elaborate, he said based on his previous observations he knew which posters would be posting in favor of which position.

It's kind of like opening a dog thread and assuming that Silver will be posting against dogs.

What's the reason? Based on past observations of what?

[terminator]

Originally Posted by Ark2

What's the reason? Based on past observations of what?

of posts.

[Nyah]

What really bugs me about this whole thing is the vilification of Trayvon Martin by some media outlets. You see photos floating around (even posted on this thread) of the kid looking big & intimidating, and some would argue: looking like a thug. I remember an article posted on USA Today last year titled ‘Trayvon Martin: Typical teen or troublemaker’? They worte that Trayvon had been suspended from school for having trace amount of weed in his backpack. The defense was even allowed to use the information that Martin died with trace amounts of marijuana in his system, trying to indicate that he had a drug problem. This is a kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong. This is a kid who was killed without being able to tell his side of the story.

Did he even start the fight? No one witnessed it, so how do we know, other than Zimmerman’s account, that this kid started the fight? However, let’s say Trayvon Martin did initiate the fight after he noticed Zimmerman following him. One could argue that Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman following him (who wouldn’t?!). Under the same law that Zimmerman is seemingly justified to defend himself, wouldn’t Martin be justified to defend himself as well if he felt that Zimmerman meant him harm? Or do you need to use a gun for it to count?

I get why Zimmerman was acquitted. Let’s face it: there wasn’t enough evidence to nail him for second degree murder and whether there was enough evidence to nail him with manslaughter is debatable. The whole thing, everything about this story pisses me off.

The race thing is crazy. I don't know if race played a role in this case or not and I'm not going to get into that: but man does it ever show the division that's still going on in the world between races. All you have to do is read comments on the case and it's disgusting on both sides of the arguement. We still have such a long way to go.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Ark2

here you go:



Seems that puckluck is suggesting that some posters are racist, which is then followed by:

I can't see where I said anything about race or racists, Can you point it out

[transplant99]

Nbm...misread

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I, for the record, think both are at fault, I'm not a trayvon fanboy by any means. I have an issue with your hypothetical in which you stated Zimmerman was dressed as a thug in a role reversal scenario. If you're suggesting that trayvon was dressed as a "thug" that night then you're wrong. I saw the crime scene photo of his dead body and he was wearing a tight, preppy flannel hoody and skinny khakis with the cuffs rolled up. His shoes looked like Ralph Lauren boating shoes that he was wearing without socks. Maybe the definition of what is gangsta dress has changed but from that pic he doesn't look threatening at all.

That's fair.

I'll scratch off clothing then from the "profile" that Zimmerman took. I hadn't seen a picture of the clothing, and going by media reports.

And dressing like a thug doesn't make you a thug, BUT it gives people ample justification for profiling you as a thug. Provided that Trayvon wasn't dressing like one that's clearly irrelevant and a mistake that I made.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by valo403

Don't forget the high on drugs part, which is of course a complete fabrication.

The fact that there was marijuana in his system when he died from the autopsy doesn't change that eh. He might not have been high, but there were absolutely drugs in his system.

I can't see where I said anything about race or racists, Can you point it out

Originally Posted by valo403

Umm no, nobody called anyone a racist. Pointing out that race plays an issue in the legal system somewhere is not calling you a racist. What a bizarre conclusion to reach.

He's saying that if the situation was reversed, we (as in the people in this thread defending Zimmerman) would not be defending Trayvon, because Trayvon is black.

That's literally the argument. His vague post about "lol conclusions from reading this board" is thinly veiled.

I mean, if he knew my post history, he would know that I side with the law in every single instance. ie. In the reverse case, the law would find Trayvon innocent - and thus I would support Trayvon.

The fact that he considers that I would switch my stance based purely on the color of a person's skin, and not the overwhelming evidence in the case, is clearly accusing me of even considering race (ie. racist) in the first place.

[icecube]

I wasn't shocked to see Cowperson take the side against the young punk looking black kid, let's just say that much.