[Trade] Flames acquire Shane O'Brien and David Jones for Tanguay and Sarich

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Stanley

People seem to forget that the only time Tanguay put up good numbers was with Calgary playing with Jarome, other than his Avs days of course...but:

He sucked in Montreal.
He sucked in Tampa.

I admire his playmaking skills but:

He clearly stated he doesn't want part of a rebuild in Calgary
He's 33
He's soft
NMC
etc...

All will depend on what transpires after 20 games or so with Jones, but I have a feeling fans will come to like his grittiness and his size down low, and he's a right hand shot.

It's about a change in identity more than anything else, not stats comparisons...same with O'Brien.

And then there's this talk about these guys being locker room distractions...well sh*t, look at the Avs locker room, they have kids trying to lead a team with a useless coach and no direction...I'm sure I'd be a cancer in that dressing room too...I mean the freakin goalie had to call out the entire team publicly.

I for one am glad if there's a couple more #######s in the Flames dressing room, might actually shake things up and change this passive country club attitude...

I agree with most of this except the bolded parts:


Tangs got 41 points in 50 games. That does not sound like he sucked. He might not have fit in, but thats not what you said. Points wise he has had 1 bad season and that was with Tampa.


As for fans liking Jones, maybe for the first 20 games but i get the feeling most think Jones is going to come to Calgary and start hitting everything in site. That will not be the case. After a year if he has not regained his form, which is only a 20-20 player, he will be the new whipping boy. I really see him as a 15-20 player that will not be hitting everything in site. At $4 million there are going to be some very pissed off posters, even if we have tons of cap space.

Don't get me wrong i still think Jones is a better fit than Tanguay going forward considering the teams direction.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

After a year if he has not regained his form, which is only a 20-20 player, he will be the new whipping boy.

I'm not so sure about that. I think expectation levels for the team will have died off enough that there'll be no reason to be pointing any fingers at anyone (except maybe management for not rebuilding sooner). To accuse a guy of underperforming his contract when there's really not a realistic goal to aspire to is like yelling at a rock for not growing when you water it.

That said, there will of course be some who just look at the stats & salary and point fingers I suppose... just won't have as much backing as when it's looking at a team that's underperforming as a whole & looking for reasons.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'm not so sure about that. I think expectation levels for the team will have died off enough that there'll be no reason to be pointing any fingers at anyone (except maybe management for not rebuilding sooner). To accuse a guy of underperforming his contract when there's really not a realistic goal to aspire to is like yelling at a rock for not growing when you water it.

That said, there will of course be some who just look at the stats & salary and point fingers I suppose... just won't have as much backing as when it's looking at a team that's underperforming as a whole & looking for reasons.

I think that regardless of anyone's expectations for the team, guys that under-perform - especially in terms of effort through this rebuild - will always be whipping boys.

Bouwmeester became a whipping boy here at some point. Last season, he was finally playing great, and he stopped being that guy. Same story with Stajan. After Iginla was traded, Tanguay turned into the biggest whipping boy, and rightfully so.

As a fan, I don't expect this team to finish high. I expect them to finish in the bottom 3 or so next season. However, my expectations for the individual players on this team moving forward is to provide entertainment, provide value to the team, and provide a lot of effort out there and live up to their contracts as best as possible. That will always be my expectations for the players, irregardless of my expectations for the team.

[CGY12]

People complain about Tanguay's lack of grit and soft play. We go out and trade him for a guy 6 years younger who may have less skill but is tougher, plays hard every shift, has shown he can score 20+ goals in the league playing on a bad Colorado team and people still complain? The way people talk around here you would think its easy to trade for a big tough skilled forward. I like the move, you get younger, tougher, bigger, all while slowly but surely changing the culture of the team.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CGY12

People complain about Tanguay's lack of grit and soft play. We go out and trade him for a guy 6 years younger who may have less skill but is tougher, plays hard every shift, has shown he can score 20+ goals in the league playing on a bad Colorado team and people still complain? The way people talk around here you would think its easy to trade for a big tough skilled forward. I like the move, you get younger, tougher, bigger, all while slowly but surely changing the culture of the team.

Don't know the player very well... does he?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by CGY12

People complain about Tanguay's lack of grit and soft play. We go out and trade him for a guy 6 years younger who may have less skill but is tougher, plays hard every shift, has shown he can score 20+ goals in the league playing on a bad Colorado team and people still complain? The way people talk around here you would think its easy to trade for a big tough skilled forward. I like the move, you get younger, tougher, bigger, all while slowly but surely changing the culture of the team.

Ya, the other thing that some people have a hard time getting their head around is that player's trade values are not universally defined by which draft pick they would get. All over these boards, posters would contemplate whether Tanguay was worth a 3rd or 2nd or 4th. He's not worth any of those. What he is worth is what the market bears, and for an aging player on a bad contract, it very much needed to be a bodies in vs bodies out situation.

Lamenting the fact that Feaster didn't get a pick is fairly naive to the situation. Jones is a good player and the Flames are hoping for some rejuvenation/reclamation here. There is nothing wrong with that. At worst, it doesn't work and is a lateral move, because Tanguay sure as hell wasn't going to work. This is EXACTLY the type of move the Flames needed to make with Tanguay, and it is the best they could have done.

[FAN]

I think the key question is whether Feaster had an option to trade Tanguay without having to take money back. If the answer is yes this deal is an epic fail. If not this deal isn't as bad as some posters think it is.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think the key question is whether Feaster had an option to trade Tanguay without having to take money back. If the answer is yes this deal is an epic fail. If not this deal isn't as bad as some posters think it is.

With the cap going down and the one deminsional type of player tangs is, I highly doubt it.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think the key question is whether Feaster had an option to trade Tanguay without having to take money back. If the answer is yes this deal is an epic fail. If not this deal isn't as bad as some posters think it is.

Someone is going to have to play for the Flames this year. Seriously doubt Feaster had an option to dump Tangs for a 2nd or something similar, but the team does have to reach the floor and fill out a lineup.

Paying Jones (a needed RW) $4 million sucks but it can't be worse than salary dumping Tanguay and then paying Tyler Bozak north of $5 million on the UFA market.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Red John

Paying Jones (a needed RW) $4 million sucks but it can't be worse than salary dumping Tanguay and then paying Tyler Bozak north of $5 million on the UFA market.

We still might

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

With the cap going down and the one deminsional type of player tangs is, I highly doubt it.

I would not say that. I doubt they could have gotten a pick for Tangs before the draft, but they might have been able to do it after July 5th. The UFA market is horrible and i will not be surprised if we see a similar type of player be traded for a 5th or 6th round pick after July 5th. Like i said in another post, at worst he gets claimed on waivers. 60 point $3.5 million NHL players do not pass through waivers.

I get that the cap is going down, but there are plenty of teams with cap space.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Don't know the player very well... does he?

Jones possesses excellent size and strength. He utilizes his large frame quite effectively and efficiently, most notably in his play around the net or driving to it. Jones is an outstanding skater who is blessed with power and speed. He plays with a bit of an edge and fiercely competitive, making the task of containing and playing against him quite difficult for opposing defenders. Jones is a smart player both with and without the puck. He is defensively responsible and can play in virtually any type of situation. Jones possesses a good hard shot with a quick release. He is also versatile in that he can play at both the center and wing positions.

I guess I'm not the only one.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by CGY12

I guess I'm not the only one.

Not sure when that review was, but that is not the player he is today.

Because of injuries he has lost his speed. His shot is not quite the way they explain either. They also make him sound like a hitting machine. He is good in front of the net, but he is not going to be hitting everything that moves. He is also very hot and cold.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Not sure when that review was, but that is not the player he is today.

Because of injuries he has lost his speed. His shot is not quite the way they explain either. They also make him sound like a hitting machine. He is good in front of the net, but he is not going to be hitting everything that moves. He is also very hot and cold.

I've seen this alluded to by fans on the internet but are there articles that back this up(from reputable sources)? I havn't seen any.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Don't know the player very well... does he?

Nope.

[skunt]

I favoured keeping Tanguay going forward because he was one of the few veterans players on the team who had the potential to outperform his contract. The Flames need more bargain contracts if they ever want to seriously contend.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I would not say that. I doubt they could have gotten a pick for Tangs before the draft, but they might have been able to do it after July 5th. The UFA market is horrible and i will not be surprised if we see a similar type of player be traded for a 5th or 6th round pick after July 5th. Like i said in another post, at worst he gets claimed on waivers. 60 point $3.5 million NHL players do not pass through waivers.

I get that the cap is going down, but there are plenty of teams with cap space.

When is the last time a player with a high cap hit for 3 years got picked off waivers? Even if a team has cap space I doubt they would have given a draft pick for Tangs. He's a player the sulks and only plays when he wants to.

[Ezio]

Pretty terrible trade for the Flames.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Pretty terrible trade for the Flames.

Lol, pretty terrible mangement of that 'special' team you guys have been building...

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

When is the last time a player with a high cap hit for 3 years got picked off waivers? Even if a team has cap space I doubt they would have given a draft pick for Tangs. He's a player the sulks and only plays when he wants to.

When was the last time a player that averages 20 goals a season and 60 points was put on waivers?

Tangs is not the only player in the NHL that gets points and only plays when he wants to. There are plenty of them and a lot of them make more than $3.5 million.

There is nothing that you can say that will convince me that Tanguay would not get picked up on waivers. At the same time there is nothing you could say that would make me believe that Jones would get picked up on waivers.