A couple of questions at a time like this...

[DuffMan]

So, in conclusion the problems for the past decade have been coaching and Iginla? undoubtedly!

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Can you support this part for me? Seems like your first question is a false premise.

The players play the games, and there was more than one coach over that time, including coaches who had success at other times/places. Sorry, but this isn't "clearly" "the reason," imo.

That part was toungue-in-cheek - I was referring to the post that I linked to in the OP... his idea was that the problem was more coaching and not so much Iginla, while my view is that the problem was more Iginla and not so much coaching. This year we have a quality legit coach, and the team still sank to the bottom. True the Flames lost some games immediately following the trade, but I believe it may have been a result of shock and disdain that their captain and leader for so long was no longer with them, and they were trying to adjust. However, with the team winning 6 of their last 8, they appear to have found their way.

FTR - I don't "hate" Iginla, nor do I think the lack of playoff success was his fault. My view is simply this - that Iginla was put into a leadership role that he wasn't suited well for, and was more or less kept in that role because of his on-ice abilities. With the way the team has always crumbled when the pressure was on, it is perfectly fair to question the leadership of the team. Who have been the leader of this team for the past decade? Iggy.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

That part was toungue-in-cheek - I was referring to the post that I linked to in the OP... his idea was that the problem was more coaching and not so much Iginla, while my view is that the problem was more Iginla and not so much coaching. This year we have a quality legit coach, and the team still sank to the bottom. True the Flames lost some games immediately following the trade, but I believe it may have been a result of shock and disdain that their captain and leader for so long was no longer with them, and they were trying to adjust. However, with the team winning 6 of their last 8, they appear to have found their way.

Ahh, sorry, didn't follow the link and wasn't in the original thread.

[moon]

1. Don't think coaching has been an issue with the team so hard to answer (or even figure out the question) but it seems to do with is Hartley a good coach or part of problem. I have always thought Hartley was a mediocre to bad coach and haven't seen anything to change that this year. Would love to get a better coach in here but since Feaster seems likely to stay on hard to see him canning his buddy and admit it was a bad hiring after just one year.

2. No this doesn't show anything of the sort. It is possible (though unlikely in my view) that Iginla was holding the team back or part of problem but 6 games of meh play when the season is over doesn't show or prove that at all.

The only thing I could think of Iginla in terms of holding the team back is that a. he masked how bad the team was by his great play/scoring and b. made it hard to start a rebuild as management didn't seem to want to do that as long as he was here.

Neither are his fault or put him in a bad light at all though.

[Resolute 14]

Interesting theory, Mathgod. We went to the SCF and won a division title in Iginla's first two seasons as captain, and after that, it is generally accepted that Sutter's roster moves progressively got worse. The team's performance deteriorated at the same rate. And while correlation does not necessarily imply causation, the latter certainly seems the simpler, and therefore more likely, explanation.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

That part was toungue-in-cheek - I was referring to the post that I linked to in the OP... his idea was that the problem was more coaching and not so much Iginla, while my view is that the problem was more Iginla and not so much coaching. This year we have a quality legit coach, and the team still sank to the bottom. True the Flames lost some games immediately following the trade, but I believe it may have been a result of shock and disdain that their captain and leader for so long was no longer with them, and they were trying to adjust. However, with the team winning 6 of their last 8, they appear to have found their way.

FTR - I don't "hate" Iginla, nor do I think the lack of playoff success was his fault. My view is simply this - that Iginla was put into a leadership role that he wasn't suited well for, and was more or less kept in that role because of his on-ice abilities. With the way the team has always crumbled when the pressure was on, it is perfectly fair to question the leadership of the team. Who have been the leader of this team for the past decade? Iggy.

My thoughts on leadership is that its always applied retrospectively to players based on team results. Guys like Eric Staal go from being a good leader to a whiner who takes selfish penalties depending on how the Hurricanes do.

In regards to Iginla, the team revolved around him. When he was in his prime this was fine but in the past few years as he became a 'post-apex' player (to steal Feaster's term) it hindered the team.

[_Q_]

Here's another question for you:

Did Iginla play so many minutes because he could rack up the points? Or did he rack up the points because he played so many minutes?

I think he was definitely a talented player, but sometimes, I felt as though option 2 was the case.

[moon]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Here's another question for you:

Did Iginla play so many minutes because he could rack up the points? Or did he rack up the points because he played so many minutes?

I think he was definitely a talented player, but sometimes, I felt as though option 2 was the case.

I would say number 1 without a doubt.

[Azhouse]

If Iginla is not around do Tanguay (for another 3 years! yeesh), Cammalleri etc get brought in to try and build it up around him? Or is that money better spent elsewhere.

I am not an "Iginla basher" but the OP brings up some thought provoking questions.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by moon

1. Don't think coaching has been an issue with the team so hard to answer (or even figure out the question) but it seems to do with is Hartley a good coach or part of problem. I have always thought Hartley was a mediocre to bad coach and haven't seen anything to change that this year. Would love to get a better coach in here but since Feaster seems likely to stay on hard to see him canning his buddy and admit it was a bad hiring after just one year.

Possible that Ward gets a chance now that we're going "young"?

[moon]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Possible that Ward gets a chance now that we're going "young"?

I hope not he hasn't shown anything to indicate he deserves an NHL shot and it is borderline whether he should even be kept on at the AHL level.

[DuffMan]

Did the coaches suck because Iginla basically ignored backchecking
or did
Iginla ignore backchecking because the coaches sucked.?

eh?

deep