Ken King Interveiw w/bob McCown

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Here's something to consider: I live in Southern Ontario and last night I was at a bar with some friends. At one point, a guy came in wearing a Calgary Flames hat. Throughout the night, people were literally pointing and laughing at him. Not only that, but I even overheard people walk up to him and offer their condolences on how bad the trade was. I'm not sure how the hockey community views Feaster personally, but to the average fan, we are the laughingstock of the league.

To the "average fan" or a group in Southern Ontario who likely cheer for the Leafs? People can laugh if they want, not sure it would bother me coming from this group.

[Zulu29]

Well I agree that the 1sts on their face don't look great, but we can package them to move up in the draft while retaining our own lottery pick.

[GGG]

So here is how the. Conversation would go if King or Feaster tried to get Iggy/ Meehan to waive his no trade to four teams.

Feaster: We are looking to start a rebuild so could you give us a list of teams you would be willing to go to?
Iggy: sure, i would consider Boston, Pitt, Chi, LA
Feaster: Could you sign this waiver waiving your no trade clause to these four teams so that if we get a deal we can make it right away.
Iggy: No, come to me with the deals you are okay with and I will waive to one of them then.
Feaster: Bu Bob Mcown says this is how all the other teams do it
Meehan: why would my client have any incentive to do that ....
Feaster: please

It just doesnt work, why would any player who has earned his no move waive it before he knows where he is going. This isnt a limited no trade where you pick 5 teams. It is a full one.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

I agree, but this is a double-edged sword. The organization did good by Iginla and they have a first round pick and some goodwill to show for that.

But that first round pick is going to suck.

Now, assume they want to trade Kipper, but he only wants to move if he has a chance to win, so he'll want to be traded to a good team and maybe you get a first for him as well. Well, now the organization will have done well by Kipper and gotten a first and some goodwill out of the deal.

That first round pick is also going to suck.

Then assume they want to trade Bouwmeester. I imagine hes only going to agree to move if he's traded to a team that he likes, presumably a good team. So the organization does right by Bouwmeester and trades him to a contending team and maybe gets a first round pick and some goodwill out of the deal.

Once again, that first round pick is going to suck.

We have to start trading people to Columbus, Colorado and Florida and getting good picks.

The Flames' drafting record is abysmal, they need the help that a 'sure-thing' draft pick can provide.

Because, at the end of the day, you can hold your goodwill in one hand and start crapping in the other and see which one fills up first.

Well if you trade Bouwmeester I think you can get a quality prospect back. Bouw has much bigger trade value than Iginla.

And in a strong draft year I'll take 3 first rounders regardless of how low a couple of them are. It may also help us move up into the top 3-5 and get the 'sure-thing' prospect if we don't finish in the bottom 5.

Its gonna be an interesting deadline and draft.

[dino7c]

people cry about losing 2nd and 3rd rounders all the time on here...yet now late 1st's "suck"

and why on earth would teams lower in the standings want to take our vets with big contracts? come on, use your heads here

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GGG

So here is how the. Conversation would go if King or Feaster tried to get Iggy/ Meehan to waive his no trade to four teams.

Feaster: We are looking to start a rebuild so could you give us a list of teams you would be willing to go to?
Iggy: sure, i would consider Boston, Pitt, Chi, LA
Feaster: Could you sign this waiver waiving your no trade clause to these four teams so that if we get a deal we can make it right away.
Iggy: No, come to me with the deals you are okay with and I will waive to one of them then.
Feaster: Bu Bob Mcown says this is how all the other teams do it
Meehan: why would my client have any incentive to do that ....
Feaster: please

It just doesnt work, why would any player who has earned his no move waive it before he knows where he is going. This isnt a limited no trade where you pick 5 teams. It is a full one.

I think the issue for me is that it appears clear now Feaster had no clue Iginla would only go to the Pens, and was pushing Boston for the best deal, a good GM would make sure they were clear with a player how it was going to go down and adjust to the reality, it may be that they got the best the Pens were going to offer but I would be happier if Feaster was putting the full court press on the Pens from the begining, as it is it would appear he had the deal with Boston, Iggy nixed it, at which Feaster freaked out and took a first from the Pens as his only prize as quickly as he could, it would equally appear he only negotiated seriously with the Pens that afternoon.

I don't mind that Iginla screwed up the plan, it's that they didn't know Iginla was going to screw up the plan that is incompatent

[Vulcan]

I don't quite buy Boston's thoughts that they had a done deal. If they did think so why did they want to talk to Iginla?

As for all the leaks coming out of Boston, these could have been their attempt to influence Iggy and Calgary to make their deal and to show fans in Boston that they were doing their job. It comes off to be a little like what the Oilers are noted for.

Having said that I want King and Feaster gone and the sooner the better. I haven't had any faith in Feaster since he got caught with his pants down in the Tom fiasco. The Regehr deal wasn't any better either.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by dino7c

people cry about losing 2nd and 3rd rounders all the time on here...yet now late 1st's "suck"

and why on earth would teams lower in the standings want to take our vets with big contracts? come on, use your heads here

late firsts suck because that's what we got in return for a future hall of famer.

Trading 2nds and 3rds for bandages suck, when our farm system has been in shambles for the better part of two decades.

finally, not many teams are actually lower than us in the standings. That not withstanding, this organization has done a terrific job of taking on other organization's veterans with bloated contracts...so unless we are that dumb, there ought to be other organizations that were in calgary's situation of the last few years.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

I don't think the actual RETURN for Iginla is what people are concerned about. There isn't a huge difference between the rumored Boston offer and pitsburgs offer.

It's more a matter of the people that are responsible for running the organization are showing their incompetence. You are not supposed to me GM/President of an NHL team and screw up trading your franchises biggest player in it's history. After the ROR debacle, and now the Iginla blunder it's justified that fans are concerned about the management of the flames.

It's easy to make excuses for managements performance but it doesn't matter . Results are all the matter and the flames GM/President are not getting the job done.

Exactly.

For those defending management, have you not noticed yet that, after every transaction, we are not debating about the value of this player vs that player, we are debating the way that management handled the situation. Every time.

I came to this thread to discuss the Friedman article because I think he nailed it. But that has been well discussed already.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Ped

.....Boston was told they had a deal BEFORE Iginla was approached and asked to waive - Chiarelli should have been told that yes, the deal was in place but now Iginlas has to agree to it, not "Iginla is yours"

My understanding - and it comes from re-listening to the various comments and conversations - is that CGY-BOS agreed to a deal but did not yet have Iggy's blessing on it, despite him previously indicating that this was a team to negotiate with.

Now, Iggy may have done that out of kindness to the Flames. If he'd said only "Pittsburgh" then Feaster's hands REALLY would have been tied. Perhaps he knew he only wanted to go there, but gave the Flames other teams to negotiate with in order to provide a measure of freedom for them, and some leverage. If a substantial offer had come from (say) LAK, maybe he would have gone there -- who knows?

In the end, the BOS and PIT deals were comparably poor, with a slight edge to PIT based on the pick (arguably).

Given that Iggy had the hammer, I'm not quite sure what all the wailing and fussing is about. He did what he thought best for him and the Flames who should have done something years ago picked up the pieces - as they should have.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Thanks for adding this last part, but the "meddling" comment is simply not true. End of story. Ownership (King and higher) does have to sign off on economic decisions of a certain level, but that is it.

King's comments about how he would get it in writing next time do not sound like "signing off on economic decisions" to me

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Oh I agree MMF. I understand Murray & Co. has to put the rubber stamp on things, but the feeling I get is that Feaster is a puppet for King (and Murray).

King has been sitting pretty too long for my liking. He's overseen too many moves that have been so bad that's it's hard to ignore.

The Flames need a hockey guy (like browna says) to run things properly..........not a newspaper guy trying to be a hockey guy.

Ken is probably a great guy. But he's not right for this job IMO.

Quoted to be seen again

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think the issue for me is that it appears clear now Feaster had no clue Iginla would only go to the Pens, and was pushing Boston for the best deal, a good GM would make sure they were clear with a player how it was going to go down and adjust to the reality, it may be that they got the best the Pens were going to offer but I would be happier if Feaster was putting the full court press on the Pens from the begining, as it is it would appear he had the deal with Boston, Iggy nixed it, at which Feaster freaked out and took a first from the Pens as his only prize as quickly as he could, it would equally appear he only negotiated seriously with the Pens that afternoon.

I don't mind that Iginla screwed up the plan, it's that they didn't know Iginla was going to screw up the plan that is incompatent

Sorry, but that's just plain old funny...

[moon]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Ken is probably a great guy. But he's not right for this job IMO.

Yep.

I have supported King for awhile and think he has done a great job for the team both in business and on the ice but with the perfect job of him overseeing the whole Flames Sports Group teams seemingly needed to be filled time to move him up to handle business and only business and bring in a hockey guy to be President of the team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yeah the laughing stock thing is not of any concern. It's sports, the fact that I choose to cheer for a bad team doesn't reflect on me as a person. The flames suck now and at some point won't suck. Welcome to being a fan

I certainly don't care what others think. And it's just sports and I am not going to lose any sleep over it, no matter what happens. Sometimes your team will suck, that's part of the experience.

However, as a STH, I drop $8k a year for the pleasure of wathing the team. I would like very much for it to matter to them to not be a bumbling, incompetent laughing stock.

[CaptainCrunch]

The first person that suggests that Craig Conroy take Kings job . . . well I swear to god, I will hunt you down and punch you in the junk.

Same goes for the GM's job.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

Yep.

I have supported King for awhile and think he has done a great job for the team both in business and on the ice but with the perfect job of him overseeing the whole Flames Sports Group teams seemingly needed to be filled time to move him up to handle business and only business and bring in a hockey guy to be President of the team.

Agreed , and have said the same thing several times

[dammage79]

Best out there right now for what this team needs. Would like to have him in before the draft if he was to come here.

[Reign of Fire]

^^^^^
Jim Nill out of Detroit should definitely be considered

[CaptainCrunch]

To Moons comment, why do we need a hockey guy as the president. The hockey guy should be overseeing the entire hockey operation, that to me means sales, the building, fan experience, yes the team on the ice, public relations, budget and communication with the owners and more.

The last thing we need is a hockey guy in that role, the presidents role is the business end.

That's the biggest problem.

Maybe the structure here is messed. The hockey department is one small part of the entire organization that is the Calgary Flames.

Maybe we need less hockey guy and more tasking guy.

We need a guy and an ownership group that really sets expectation and results requirements from the hockey side and lets them loose with the consideration being success.

A president should be getting the business plan and budget requirements from the hockey department and then doing the required coordination with ownership, but not actively participating in the day to day operations.


Less hockey guy more big picture vision guy.

Maybe we have weak hockey management and the owners and King don't trust them.

But I read with concern about King handling negotiations with players, isn't that why we got Feaster and his staff?

Less hockey guy, more business guy that can set expectations and only get involved when its clear that the hockey department or sales department or building department are struggling and fall short.

This is a massive business first and a on ice organization second as a subset of the whole thing.