[Trade] Iginla to the Pens for Agostino, Hanowski, 2013 1st

[TSXCman]

I don't know what a Agostino or Hanowski is, but can't be worse than a Bartkowski.

Even though people remember D Sutter for his end of tenure crazy period, that guy used to make insane deals, robbing other teams...


There will be a day in 2014, where the Flames have lost a Franchise D, F, and G over the past 5 seasons. The remnants on the Flames will be Stajan, some players ready for the AHL, and the next Mario Lemeiux, drafted 30th overall in 2013.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Really? So then how did he end up in Pittsburgh when Boston and Calgary agreed on a trade?

Answer: because he had final say in where he was moved.

You're incorrect.

Yes, of course you're right with what you're saying - he chose Pittsburgh in the end. But that's not at all what I'm saying...

What I'm saying is that if Feaster got a list of approved teams from Iginla then formally submitted that to the NHLPA then it no longer would have mattered if Iginla changed his mind and decided on the Penguins over the Bruins. Feaster could have traded him to any team on that list and would no longer require formal offical from Iginla again once a deal was reached. That is black and white too.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And you have evidence that any such list was submitted to the NHLPA such as to formally modify his NMC? We have speculation that he submitted a list to the Flames that he would consider, not that he formally waived his no-movement to those four teams.

Exactly...that's what I'm saying. Clearly this wasn't done or else Feaster would have went with the Bruins trade and not have it all blow up in his face.

[Senator Clay Davis]

There was no actual list. Either Iginla suggested those teams would be teams he'd consider, or the Flames suggested those teams to Iginla. If there was a breach in protocol you can bet there'd be grievances filed already.

[pepper24]

I think what a lot of fans are forgetting is the extra $7M in cap space. That's a lot to work with if Flames management uses it properly.

[LouCypher]

Here is a list of all the players drafted in the first round between 27-30 from 2002-2012. While its easy to see its not filled with superstars its also easy to pick out some pretty decent players. Good scouting and not wasting picks will benefit teams over the long haul even with late round picks.Not to go to far off topic but I think this at least shows the late first rounder we picked up does have value and can be used to find a good player.

2002
27 San Jose Mike Morris F
28 Colorado Jonas Johansson R
29 Boston Hannu Toivonen G
30 Atlanta Jim Slater

2003
27 Los Angeles Jeff Tambellini L
28 Anaheim Corey Perry R
29 Ottawa Patrick Eaves R
30 St. Louis Shawn Belle

2004
27 Washington Jeff Schultz D
28 Dallas Mark Fistric D
29 Washington Mike Green D
30 Tampa Bay Andy Rogers D

2005
27 Washington Joe Finley D
28 Dallas Matt Niskanen D
29 Philadelphia Steve Downie R
30 Tampa Bay Vladimir Mihalik d

2006
1 27 Dallas Ivan Vishnevskiy D
28 Ottawa Nick Foligno L
29 Phoenix Chris Summers D
30 New Jersey Matt Corrente

2007
27 Detroit Brendan Smith D
28 San Jose Nick Petrecki D
29 Ottawa Jim O'Brien C
30 Phoenix Nick Ross D

2008
1 27 Washington John Carlson D
28 Phoenix Viktor Tikhonov L
29 Atlanta Daultan Leveille C
30 Detroit Thomas McCollum G

2009
27 Carolina Philippe Paradis L
28 Chicago Dylan Olsen D
29 Tampa Bay Carter Ashton R
30 Pittsburgh Simon Despres

2010
27 Phoenix Mark Visentin G
28 San Jose Charlie Coyle F
29 Anaheim Emerson Etem C
30 NY Islanders Brock Nelson

2011
27 Tampa Bay Vladislav Namestnikov C
28 Minnesota Zack Phillips C
29 Vancouver Nicklas Jensen R
30 Anaheim Rickard Rakell C

2012
27 Phoenix Henrik Samuelsson C
28 NY Rangers Brady Skjei D
29 New Jersey Stefan Matteau F
30 Los Angeles Tanner Pearson L

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Exactly...that's what I'm saying. Clearly this wasn't done or else Feaster would have went with the Bruins trade and not have it all blow up in his face.

Ahh, fair enough. I misread the intent of your post.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Yes, of course you're right with what you're saying - he chose Pittsburgh in the end. But that's not at all what I'm saying...

What I'm saying is that if Feaster got a list of approved teams from Iginla then formally submitted that to the NHLPA then it no longer would have mattered if Iginla changed his mind and decided on the Penguins over the Bruins. Feaster could have traded him to any team on that list and would no longer require formal offical from Iginla again once a deal was reached. That is black and white too.

Really? Your contention starts with "if" and it's black and white?

You have the same problem Vinny does. You seem to be suggesting either Iginal did or should have just given them a blank cheque to trade him to four teams.

As I said before, based on the fact we know he had a preference, it's much more logical to assume he'd consider four teams, but ultimately used his NMC clause to have the final say. And that was 100% his prerogative.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I am balking at the process because of the return we got.

It's a 2 team market. You don't exactly get good returns when all you have to do is beat one team. There's no good way to start a bidding war, especially when the other person is Chiarelli, who's not exactly known to be a high stakes gambler for rentals. Both sides likely knew the mentality of the other.

Or in Pittsburgh's case, alter your team to be more attractive to the player. Iginla had a lot of power in this since he got last say and Pittsburgh made their pitch not to Feaster, but to Iginla by providing him an amazingly attractive position on the team. They altered the market such that they could offer a lower return to the Flames than normal since they just had to win over Iginla enough that, should he be aware that two teams had offers on him (which would be a massive failure on his agent's behalf if they didn't inquire), he'd pick one as long as it didn't destroy the team...if he was aware of the difference in offers at all.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I am none too surprised to have to be typing this to you, as it seems that certain things are somewhat difficult for you to understand.

I am balking at the process because of the return we got.

1) Iginla is consulted about a list of teams he might be willing to go to
2) Meehan submits the list to Feaster and leaks some information to the press
3) Feaster assembles 2 mediocre offers from the major players - Pitts and Boston, lets Iginla pick which one he would prefer
4) Feaster leads Boston on and tells Pitts that "Iginla really wants to be a Penguin"
5) Feaster accepts a trade with the Pens.

If you honestly don't see anything wrong with this process - I'd be happy to inform you exactly how Feaster messed up.

Please put fourth a logical explanation of what could have been done differently when it is clear Iginla exercised his NMC to end up in Pittsburgh.

[dino7c]

I'll say it again

16 meaningless games with 35 year old Iggy<1st and two prospects

take the emotion out, nothing wrong with the deal

[TSXCman]

Considering Bennett was sent down to make room for Iggy.... Doesn't that scream for a potential movie that wasn't pushed for?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by kirant

It's a 2 team market. You don't exactly get good returns when all you have to do is beat one team. There's no good way to start a bidding war, especially when the other person is Chiarelli, who's not exactly known to be a high stakes gambler for rentals. Both sides likely knew the mentality of the other.

See this is exactly the point!

Boston nor Pittsburgh should have had any idea that it was a two team race.

[GreenLantern]

That 26-30 range seems equally as miss as it is hit.. but still some big gems in there to be had.

The fact this is a deep draft has to increase the chance of success.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Really? Your contention starts with "if" and it's black and white?

You have the same problem Vinny does. You seem to be suggesting either Iginal did or should have just given them a blank cheque to trade him to four teams.

As I said before, based on the fact we know he had a preference, it's much more logical to assume he'd consider four teams, but ultimately used his NMC clause to have the final say. And that was 100% his prerogative.

Ugh...ok, well rejoice cause I promise this will be my last post on this topic. This all started with you saying Feaster couldn't have done anything different and this wasn't at all his fault.

I was just saying he COULD have forced the issue and got a list of teams Iginla would actually accept a trade to (even if it's just one or two teams). Then he knows he can deal with these teams without having everything blow up in his face and have to go back on a deal because Iginla changes his mind. Even if Iginla refuses to give this list, he should have AT LEAST spoken to him just before he agreed to the deal with Boston and told them they won the sweepstakes.

My point is that while Iginla really made a mess of this for Feaster, it's not like Feaster didn't play a part in this mess too.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

See this is exactly the point!

Boston nor Pittsburgh should have had any idea that it was a two team race.

I'm not sure there was much the Flames could have done. No sane man on management (okay, I'll point out that if the Flames did announce that the list was very short, then somebody needs to get axed)...on any team would have leaked the list of 3-4 teams. I mean, we all knew who was on it.

This would imply that it was leaked by a different source. Maybe somebody low in management who wanted to release information or Iginla's agent. I don't know. What matters though is that I don't think the Flames upper management intentionally let the information loose. There is literally no gain for them. Again though, if it was Feaster or King who said to media in a press release I'm unaware of, "Yes, Iginla has sent us a list. It's 3 or 4 teams deep.", then they DID fundamentally screw up the dynamics of the market for Iginla.

But it was my understanding the management was dead silent before the trade. Which is why I don't think there was such a case.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

That 26-30 range seems equally as miss as it is hit.. but still some big gems in there to be had.

The fact this is a deep draft has to increase the chance of success.

i thought this wasn't a deep draft, and thin after the top 4? or am i mistaken?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Please put fourth a logical explanation of what could have been done differently when it is clear Iginla exercised his NMC to end up in Pittsburgh.

Answer the question please. Does this process look OK to you?

[Quincy Egg]

I thought the return would be underwhelming it looks like I turned out to be right.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Yes, of course you're right with what you're saying - he chose Pittsburgh in the end. But that's not at all what I'm saying...

What I'm saying is that if Feaster got a list of approved teams from Iginla then formally submitted that to the NHLPA then it no longer would have mattered if Iginla changed his mind and decided on the Penguins over the Bruins. Feaster could have traded him to any team on that list and would no longer require formal offical from Iginla again once a deal was reached. That is black and white too.

I might agree with you if I can find anywhere that this is standard protocol for a full NMC. Looking through the CBA, what you state is true for limited NTC's. player has a formal list of teams he can be traded to and has no input on which of those teams he goes to. Iggy had a full NMC and was under no legal obligation to give Feaster a set list, that if Feaster then filed this list with the NHL he now had the power to send Iggy to any of those 4 teams as he sees fit. Please show me anywhere where there is concrete proof that Feaster decided to ignore this process. Because by all accounts it sounds like Iggy gave a verbal list, but in the end decided Pittsburgh was the only place he wanted to go. It had nothing to do with any supposed paperwork Feaster failed to file.