One angle we are forgetting is even if we do draft someone like Seth Jones or John Drouin (although I prefer Barkov) the Flames will probably suck #### and be bottom 5 for at least another season or two maybe more depending on how fast the prospects develop.
ONE good draft isn't going to magically turn this team around. We aren't a few good trade pieces away from being a contender just like we aren't a few good prospects away. We could grab a Centre in 2014 if not this year lol. This team wont have arrived if it even does for at least 2 to 4 seasons.
I wouldn't be too choked if Calgary somehow ended with McKinnon this year, and McDavid next year.
So did Bouwmeester. Take the center and pick defensemen later in the draft. You build teams around the center position and bolster the team with defensemen. We saw with Nashville that having two of the top defenseman in the league isn't enough to overcome lack of elte talent at forward and name a recent Stanley Cup winner that didn't have a true elite center.
Is the centre (MacKinnon) a better player than Jones? I'd like a centre, but only if a centre is a better pick than any dman, winger, goalie out there. Pick the best player.
The Flames picked a centre (Tkachuk) over wingers (Hossa and Samsonov) in '97. Tkachuk had tough luck, but I don't think he was an elite player.
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After watching the last game against Nashville, I'm officially aboard the rebuild now and sink to 30th for a top pick. I don't support a full rebuild, but obviously we have veteran players that can fetch us prospects/picks so it would be foolish not to take what we can get for Iggy, Kipper, Bouw, Gio, Cammy, Tangs +++.
If done right we can still remain competitive as soon as next year (see Ottawa) and be a youthful, fun team to watch. Keep anyone under 30 as we do require some veteran presence. A veteran 4th line is acceptable in my opinion. They can protect the young guys and provide some leadership which we will definitely need with Iggy gone.
That said, I think Drouin is the player to get in this draft. Looking at the WJC he seemed to be the most NHL ready out of the top 5 and can just do it all. He gives it his all every shift and can damage bodies as well as the back of the net.
Is the centre (MacKinnon) a better player than Jones? I'd like a centre, but only if a centre is a better pick than any dman, winger, goalie out there. Pick the best player.
The Flames picked a centre (Tkachuk) over wingers (Hossa and Samsonov) in '97. Tkachuk had tough luck, but I don't think he was an elite player.
The only reason i would pick MacKinnon over the other 2 is that there is a case to be made for all 3 to go #1. That tells me that none of the 3 are clearly better than the other. I would not be mad if the flames took Jones or Drouin over MacKinnon, but i would like a center because of our past.
So did Bouwmeester. Take the center and pick defensemen later in the draft. You build teams around the center position and bolster the team with defensemen. We saw with Nashville that having two of the top defenseman in the league isn't enough to overcome lack of elte talent at forward and name a recent Stanley Cup winner that didn't have a true elite center.
That's a false equivalency.
Just because some other high end defenceman didn't reach his ceiling doesn't mean Jones can't.
Nothing like Jones has come up yet. He doesn't really have a comparable. Incredibly athletic and a huge defenceman with both finesse and power.
With that said, I wont be upset if the Flames pass on him, I just think he's been given short shrift.
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In many ways, im glad this has been a shortened season... the Flames are in as much denial as the Black Knight, its just a flesh wound!
Lets just get it done with, i will cheer for the perogie makers for a couple months and start fresh in July. Race for first pick overall... starts tonight.
After watching the last game against Nashville, I'm officially aboard the rebuild now and sink to 30th for a top pick. I don't support a full rebuild, but obviously we have veteran players that can fetch us prospects/picks so it would be foolish not to take what we can get for Iggy, Kipper, Bouw, Gio, Cammy, Tangs +++.
If done right we can still remain competitive as soon as next year (see Ottawa) and be a youthful, fun team to watch. Keep anyone under 30 as we do require some veteran presence. A veteran 4th line is acceptable in my opinion. They can protect the young guys and provide some leadership which we will definitely need with Iggy gone.
That said, I think Drouin is the player to get in this draft. Looking at the WJC he seemed to be the most NHL ready out of the top 5 and can just do it all. He gives it his all every shift and can damage bodies as well as the back of the net.
Nichushkin is playing in the KHL and Barkov in the SM-ligaa. Personally I see them as being more ready since they are playing against men/ ex- NHLers already. I don't know much about Nichushkin though admittedly or if he is a flight risk. Barkov is a bit slow from what I have seen so I think that is his red flag unless he can pull a Thornton or Kopitar and work through it (those two aren't fast either) and with Drouin you always have to worry if that flash can translate to the Bigger NHL or if he will get smothered. Still some question marks with all these guys really.
I do think that a number one center is the hardest type of player to acquire outside drafting him. You have to draft them. However, I don't see how anyone could be disappointed with any of the top-3 picks if the Flames get that high, and after that you have a bunch of great centers available.
I think this team has done a good job of a rebuild for the past few drafts, guys like Baerchi and Gaudreau although a few years off, have the chance to turn this franchise around.
If we look a little deeper at Sieloff, Wotherspoon, Gillies, Brossoit, Granlund, Arnold, Ramage, Ferland, Reinhart, Bouwma, Breen and Lamb we have a lot of potential NHLers and at the same time guys with a shot of making a difference on this team. Adding to it a top 5 and possibly 1-2 more top 30 picks in a deep draft, I think this turn around would be a lot quicker than people assume.
This gives me comfort in dealing some of our veteran players, I think the time to lean on them has passed. Sure they will be missed, but for how long?
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Just because some other high end defenceman didn't reach his ceiling doesn't mean Jones can't.
Nothing like Jones has come up yet. He doesn't really have a comparable. Incredibly athletic and a huge defenceman with both finesse and power.
With that said, I wont be upset if the Flames pass on him, I just think he's been given short shrift.
When was the last top 5 D to live up to his billing. You could add the Johnsons, Barker, Hedman, Bogosian etc. to Bouw as not living up to their billing Even though some of these guys are pretty good there is no way in hell they are better than Tavares, Stamkos and other forwards that their teams could of picked instead. It just never seems to work out better opportunity costwise.
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If we look a little deeper at Sieloff, Wotherspoon, Gillies, Brossoit, Granlund, Arnold, Ramage, Ferland, Reinhart, Bouwma, Breen and Lamb we have a lot of potential NHLers and at the same time guys with a shot of making a difference on this team. Adding to it a top 5 and possibly 1-2 more top 30 picks in a deep draft, I think this turn around would be a lot quicker than people assume.
That list is nothing special and I don't see much in the way of potential NHLers there. Maybe Wotherspoon turns into a depth defenceman, Reinhart might be able to crack a lineup and the goalies are a crap shoot. Otherwise, I'd be shocked if any of the others became NHL regulars. Hope they do but I'm certainly not banking on it.
When was the last top 5 D to live up to his billing. You could add the Johnsons, Barker, Hedman, Bogosian etc. to Bouw as not living up to their billing Even though some of these guys are pretty good there is no way in hell they are better than Tavares, Stamkos and other forwards that their teams could of picked instead. It just never seems to work out better opportunity costwise.
I'm no expert but this shows you haven't really watched Jones in action. Dude is a different player from Johnson, Barker, Hedman, Bogo. He's upper crust.
Granted, I am easily impressed by razzle-dazzle and don't claim to be more knowledgable than the average fan, but when I look at the highlights, Drouin seems to have way more wow-factor than MackInnon. I know that such things can be misleading though (for example, Langkow was less showy than say Samsonov, but I know who I'd rather have).
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I think this team has done a good job of a rebuild for the past few drafts, guys like Baerchi and Gaudreau although a few years off, have the chance to turn this franchise around.
If we look a little deeper at Sieloff, Wotherspoon, Gillies, Brossoit, Granlund, Arnold, Ramage, Ferland, Reinhart, Bouwma, Breen and Lamb we have a lot of potential NHLers and at the same time guys with a shot of making a difference on this team. Adding to it a top 5 and possibly 1-2 more top 30 picks in a deep draft, I think this turn around would be a lot quicker than people assume.
This gives me comfort in dealing some of our veteran players, I think the time to lean on them has passed. Sure they will be missed, but for how long?
You could go through a list of prospects on every team in the NHL and say here is bunch of potential NHLers and this guy looks poised to make a difference but it never quite works out that way unfortunately. I think we should just temper our expectations. for all we know Backlund is the new Hemsky. Bart cant translate his game to the NHL. Neimz ends up a 4th liner. Our goalies end up like Mcelhinney. You just never know. Its really 50/50 if a draft or two makes a difference. If it wasn't, than the Oilers would be cup contenders right now.
When was the last top 5 D to live up to his billing. You could add the Johnsons, Barker, Hedman, Bogosian etc. to Bouw as not living up to their billing Even though some of these guys are pretty good there is no way in hell they are better than Tavares, Stamkos and other forwards that their teams could of picked instead. It just never seems to work out better opportunity costwise.
Not sure why people are adding Hedman to a list like that. He's looking very good and long-term is likely just as good as he was projected to be.
I'm like Tinordi - I think Jones is something truly special - and therefore can't be compared to past drafts.
You win cups with guys like Pronger and Lindstrom. They can carry teams. I see Jones having the potential to be one of the best dmen of this era.
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